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Speaking from the perspective of someone who knows nothing about the subject matter: if you're citing sources with different "fan cultures", why are the sources you're citing more valid than the sources they're citing?
Can you prove that a significant segment of the FFXV fanbase (or gaming fanbase in general) are more positive toward Episode Ignis due to disliking Dawn of the Future? Social media posts aren't normally good evidence unless it can be demonstrated that it's a common opinion (i.e., a large number of posts with the same opinion, or posts with large likes/favorites/re-posts).
Otherwise, it'll be your word against theirs.
Yeah, Topic Creator, you shouldnt be so sure of yourself when editing stuff like this.
Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.
This feels like a disagreement for the discussion page, not something that needs moderator intervention yet. This disagreement illustrates nicely why "YMMV is not for personal opinions" doesn't work so well in practice, though.
Edited by SeptimusHeap "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I talked to them more and the issue seems to be that they were under the mistaken belief that Vindicated by History requires unanimous approval and citations when it doesn't.
I talked to them more and the issue seems to be that they were under the mistaken belief that Vindicated by History requires unanimous approval and citations when it doesn't.
So what does that mean? Are they fine with the original example now or not?
We're discussing how to rewrite it in a way that comes off as slightly more neutral, but otherwise yes.
Immortal Bear re-deleted
an entry I restored to Final Fantasy XV since their original deletion lacked an edit reason. They've provided an explanation after the fact, but most of it comes off as personal opinion and dislike of the Episode Ignis ending for reasons unrelated to what the original entry was about (that being that audience perception of its tone shifted due to Dot F), rather than an impartial collective observation of the reactions of the fandom at the time.
I've PM'd them as much, pointing out to them that they seem to take the YMMV label too literally as its actual focus is to describe audience responses to a work rather than to post personal opinions, that contrary to their belief the page is not trying to wage a war over which ending is objectively better, and I've also pointed out to them that though they claim the only people with a non-negative opinion are a Vocal Minority, other tropers have made the same observations as me regarding the state of the fandom at the time.
They seem to believe that because Dawn of the Future has an overall score of 9.0 on Good Reads (which often has a userbase culture distinct from the social media sites I frequent like Twitter, Tumblr, Reddit, or imageboards, and whose score doesn't always take into account things like the specific comparative tone of the ending), while Episode Ignis rates an average of 7.0 (the score again mostly focusing on things like gameplay rather than tone), that it invalidates everything I've said above, since I don't have hard sources on hand for every tweet or social media comment I've seen regarding people being softer on Episode Ignis's ending or disliking Dawn of the Future's approach.
I don't think that makes for an effective counterargument as YMMV does not mandate sources in general, and Dawn of the Future's perception outside of GR tends to attract a lot of negativity in its own right, not to mention disregarding said potential inherent selection bias (the people posting reviews were probably accepting enough of the controversies around the book to read through the whole thing). The reviews themselves on GR are variable with many positive scores criticizing the ending, and many reviews that praise the ending having mediocre scores on the whole.
None of the arguments they've provided contradict the initial point (that people's opinions of Episode Ignis became less hostile once Dawn of the Future was announced) of nor justify the deletion of the entry describing how people's hostility to a certain alternate ending seen as overly happy, dipped off once another, even happier ending showed up. Especially since the edit reason for deleting it is focused mostly on arguing why Alternate Ending #1 is badly written and any talk of audience reactions is more about pointing out that a portion of the audience exist who liked the other newer, even happier ending, even though the original entry never claimed otherwise or to speak for the entirety of the fandom.
Update: They are now accusing me of outright lying and being biased in favor of one ending for disputing their deletions, despite the major issues here having to do with a lack of, followed by questionably irrelevant removal reasons in what is a potential edit war. Update 2: They've taken it back after I explained myself further.
Edited by AlleyOop