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This is the second time in a short period High Crate has been brought up in ATT for jumping the gun on making changes to workshopped pages before there was actually a clear vote or time for discussion on the matter
Something has to give here and some kind of agreement needs to be reached on this ongoing mess.
Edited by CryptidProductions
It should be noted that the "Is this an example" thread tends to move very fast, and questions there often get ignored because new ones show up fast. Getting two answers in this thread is easily enough to be considered a consensus.
Although this is indeed way too short a time to discuss a contested example, and it should rather have been pulled to the discussion of the work page rather than the "Is this an example" thread.
For what it worth, however, I agree with the revert and removal of all these weasel words. I did notice the double standard myself just after watching the movie.
Edited by StFan
I also agree that the example shouldn't have been reverted so quickly, especially with no real discussion. Spontaneously I think the example could be pulled and a discussion should be opened on the FFH page so that there will be an actual discussion there since everyone (I guess) who's following the page has seen the movie which is (probably) not the case with the "Is this an example?" thread.
But I'm not sure if this would qualify as an edit war... so yeah I guess a mod could help out here, just in case?
Definitely valid removal of the weasel words at play, however discussion or ATT would have been the best route to go.
Considering how rare it is to get some answers, two responses for an example is plenty of consensus. The problem is not giving enough time for dissent. Not everyone reads the entire website all the time.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
To the OP: If you feel the example itself is factually incorrect, you can always pull it to the film's discussion thread or suggest an alternative in the Example thread.
- Fly, robin, fly! - ...I'm trying!
Wasn't an alternative suggested to the Example thread originally and that’s what the OP is having issue with? I mean I find the revised example correct in removing the weasel words, but think that it should have been taken to ATT or discussion first. Also technically Tony Stark did proclaim himself a hero, its in the name of the EDITH. Even , Dead, I'm ( Tony),the, hero. That can't be argued with, nor does the destructive and morally questionable attribute of the system itself.
Edited by Tuvok
The entry text isn't engraved in stone. If significant dissent arises, we'll discuss it and change the wording if necessary.
However, consensus both here and on the ITAE thread is that the text is fine as written and doesn't need any Justifying Edits or Weasel Words. Discussion has been had, agreement has been reached, the system works.
Edited by HighCrate
Considering that the drone's usage, to my understanding, was not for the sole purpose of killing people, I'm not sure it qualifies. And having drones attempt hits isn't presented as being heroic within the context of the film itself.
^^ I don't have an issue with the removal of those particular lines, I do have an issue with the way it was done. A) more than 6 hours should be given for others to reply when it comes to wording changes, preferably a couple of days B) it would be better to pull that example to the film discussion page instead.
Edited by Asherinka
^^ The only things we see the drones do in the film are attempted assassination and (after being reprogrammed by Mysterio) property damage. If there is literally any other use for them, it's never brought up. And that's before we get into the global-scale warrantless wiretapping.
^ Folks have all the time in world to reply. You are replying right now. The entry didn't somehow become permanent and irreversible after six hours.
TBH I tend to forget that Discussion pages exist because they tend to be ghost towns, but if you'd like to post there with a link to this ATT thread, or to move this conversation over there while leaving a link here, I'm amenable.
Edited by HighCrate
While "hits" were not the drones sole purpose it was equipped with the ability to track down and kill targets. Making it a platform for killer drones. Just by said target being marked by a pair of sunglasses. No review, no investigation, no confirmation of target threat. Basically click and kill. Also it's presented as heroic due to its name. Still.the.hero. Not to mention that the good guys act like E.D.I.T.H is some great gift or tool and not some dangerous weapon with some ethically questionable standings. It's treated as a good thing not as something possibly ethically or legally wrong. Even when it almost kills an unaware student on a bus. It's treated as a quirk instead of a problem. If not seen as something wrong but as something useful then despite it's unfortunate implications it's being presented as something good aka heroic. Also it's other purpose was illegal surveillance and data mining which is definitely not heroic either.
Edited by Tuvok
There was a bit of the controversy going on with the Protagonist-Centered Morality on the Spider-Man: Far From Home page and troper HighCrate
pulled the contested example to the example thread
. It happened at Jul 15th 12:24 AM. Two tropers replied to him there, and six hours later, at Jul 15th 6:25 AM he pulled the example back "per concensus". What kind of concensus can be reached during 6 hours when none of the people originally editing that example got the chance to be involved in the discussion? To be clear, I was not among them but I find it wrong.
The resulting example "per concensus" is factually incorrect. It states that Tony Stark "proclaimed himself a hero" for creating E.D.I.T.H. while nothing like that happened in the film. How do I delete that part when "concensus" was reached?
Edited by Asherinka