It's a Gundam thread!

It's admittedly been more than a decade since I've watched Wing, but I don't recall Relena's political shenanigans in becoming "queen of the world" and all that actually mattering. Like, other than inspiring Heero and Millardo to do things, her effect on the plot is negligible.

She somehow managed to turn the Rommefeller Foundation from a bunch of conquering warmongers to a mostly benevolent democracy with a few speeches while she was "Queen of the World".

So she definitely didn't do nothing... though at the same time there's really no explanation as to how she accomplished that change. And it happens really abruptly, too.

Like, one of the first thing Relena does is face down a mobile suit on all her lonesome without fear. When her father is killed, she immediately sets into motion a plan to assassinate his killer and would have done it too if she had ever held a gun before in her life.

It's true her character development from spoiled and vengeful rich girl to leader of a pacifist leader of a rebel country is off-screen but it's still there and that wasn't the discussion anyway. The point was to insist upon the girls' agency and independence in the story. Relena spends plenty of time away from Heero doing her own thing and she, as I said, accomplishes more than any of the Gundam Wing boys during Operation METEOR.

Marina was the sovereign of a nothing nation. Relena re-founded and led the greatest opposition to Romefeller on Earth, all while Heero and friends were off doing whatever.

She does plenty on her own and her actions effect the plot more than fuckin' Wufei's do. (just to pick a main male character)

Edited by Nikkolas on Dec 4th 2020 at 11:32:10 AM

The issue with Relena as Queen isn't that her impact is negligible 'She basically turns Half of the Series Main bad guy faction into the main army for peace and effectively unites the Earth sphere

Its just its in the first half of Act 4 so Technically You both are right.

Act 4 of Wing has absurd pacing issue, with Relena going from defeated foe, Promoted Figurehead with no real power, To Actual powerhouse to ousted by Treize in the span of like 4 episodes

Wing is usually pretty good about the Faction changes but the start of act 4 is ROUGH its clear they are trying to tie up the loose ends so everything can be resolved in a second space arc. They pretty rush everything Earth wise to get everybody important back in Space and fighting the White Fang.

Act 4 of Wing is effectively an Act 4 and 5 smashed together

____

You See to me Lacus is a PERFECT Relena an almost too perfect Relena and thats strictly cause people can play in ways she can't predict

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Dec 5th 2020 at 6:01:50 AM

Something I just realized is that Relena was already favoured among some of the Romefeller aristocracy before she was elected to be "Queen of the World," so to speak.

That Marquis called Weridge stood up for her when Une tried to arrest her after Relena attempted to kill her.

And then Treize swooped in and said "thanks for uniting the planet for me, I'll take over now" and Relena was just sort of "...okay, sure". I forget if it was suggested that Treize actually deliberately arranged it that way or not, but the upshot is that Treize, not Relena, is who actually ends up in charge. You could remove that entire thing (IIRC it was only like five episodes from "hey Relena we're setting you up as a puppet figurehead" to "wow Relena is actually running things, that wasn't supposed to happen" to "nevermind, Treize is in charge now" anyway???) and just have Treize use his well-established political acumen and powerful connections to unite the world under his rule himself.

You're missing my point, I'm not saying that Relena (and all the other Gundam Princesses) literally do nothing for their entire shows. I'm saying that the things they do have little or not influence on the overall plot except in inspiring other characters who do influence the plot. Relena facing down a mobile suit or planning a revenge murder may be interesting, but they don't matter in the long run (especially when she doesn't actually go through with the murder). Relena becoming Queen of the World may be cool, but it doesn't change anything. Relena developing from a naive rich kid to a confident political icon may be satisfying, but it doesn't materially affect the course of the overall story. Relena doesn't do anything (outside inspiring others) that's actually plot-relevant, or at least nothing that couldn't be easily done by someone else if she wasn't around.

Meanwhile, Lacus aggressively recruits others to her cause, hands out Gundams to her chosen champions, and forms a third-party faction that dramatically changes the entire third act of the show. Without Lacus, Kira never gets the Freedom, Athrun never defects away from ZAFT, the Three Ships Alliance never exists, and in all likelihood Rau succeeds in destroying humanity. Lacus has real, immediate, tangible influence on the story. She's not just there to inspire other characters. Her role in the show isn't easily written out or taken over by other characters. She's an active participant in the plot in a way that most other Gundam Princesses are not.

So I finally finished ZZ and watched Turn-A and X in quarantine. Also finished Origin. Overall good shit, have many thoughts.

Also in the years since I last posted I realized that if I think a character I relate to has a certain mental illness, perhaps I also have that mental illness. I can't believe a shitty Gundam villain is how I ended up getting my BPD diagnosis.

So this amusement park will open today.

One day

Nice stuff, although I'm kinda sad we didn't get a new Gundam show (with actual Mobile Suits and not something like Build) in so long! What was it, like, 3 and a half years since IBO ended? At least we get Hathaway in May, so that's kind of a plus. (Not saying Re:Rise isn't a good show, but Gunpla just aren't the real deal to me....)

To be fair, Hathaway would probably be on home video by now had COVID not delayed it.

Well, considering Sunrise has had to slow things down a lot with COVID, it's honestly amazing we still get stuff.

If Hathaway counts then Narrative would, too and that was only two years ago.

They updated Gundam Battle Operation 2 to add a virtual Yokohama Gundam hangar to its hub area.

@Larkmarn: Yeah I've forgotten about Narrative. Maybe because I've repressed it for not liking it. Utter nonsense of a movie even if you watched Unicorn. Fukui is honestly a terrible writer and the only good thing he did is integrate the Cosmic Era, Anno Domini, Advanced Generation and Post Disaster into the Dark History. EDIT: Jeez Louise, I messed up the @ part. TWICE. This is meant as a response to Larkman and not G 2 Battle Convoy. Sorry!

Edited by Biomaster2000 on Dec 18th 2020 at 7:48:32 PM

I wouldn't call that a good thing, but that's just my own personal opinion talking.

@amitakartok: You mean the retcon? Yeah, I'm not a fan of it either, but I guess that's arguably the most reasonable thing Fukui did. Never really liked how he pushed Newtypes into being able to do super robot level shenanigans in their Gundams (Banagher, I'm looking at you!).

Yeah, we're about due for at least an announcement for a new AU series. The gap is usually a couple years, and IBO finished in 2017. I imagine that Covid slowed things down considerably, but I wouldn't be surprised if we got a new show in summer or fall 2021.

@Native Jovian: I sure hope so. I'd personally want a Gundam show on a galactic scale since the Solar System scale has become kinda boring tbh.

With Legendary in turmoil thanks the Warner Media deal, it makes more sense to do an AU than wait on that LA film.

@Beatman 1: Yeah, Legendary is a mess rn. I believe they announced Brian K Vaughan as the writer and that's it. No director news, no actor news, no mecha designer news (which is kinda important for a movie like this), no nothing. Pretty much guaranteed to be in Development Hell for now.

Edited by Biomaster2000 on Dec 18th 2020 at 8:23:21 PM

I'm personally of the opinion that the Dark History would've been better off as a UC-only thing. Now it feels like whenever something new comes up, they retroactively adjust the Turn A's power level to keep it as the top dog rather than just letting it go and moving on.

Always reminded me that Wild Arms tried to pull all games took place on the same Filgaia too, and how much it frustrated me by doing so.

How would they even explain how humanity hasnt completely totalled the planet into a desolate wasteland with the number of timelines it has to shove in together in Gundam to do so, all the colony drops, allthe collapse of technology to the point people regress tech wise and have to build back up. Or explain the aliens and Space Whale Skeletons.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Dec 18th 2020 at 11:54:08 AM

Well Correct Century is the definite outcome of UC and RC eras. I didn't see any AU suits in Turn A while there is a heapton of UC suits. But onto a different topic: What is your favorite Gundam? I personally really like the Epyon from Wing, the Double X from X, the Turn A, pretty much every Gundam Athrun piloted in the Seedverse and the Vidar from IBO. EDIT: Another because it's for amirakartok

Edited by Biomaster2000 on Dec 18th 2020 at 8:58:40 PM

I thought it was hinted that Corin was a survivor of the After Colony timeline?