Umineko No Naku Koro Ni

I just wanted to have a thread about it. Post your expectations for this anime here, and discuss the games and the anime itself when it comes out.

I haven't played the visual novel itself but from what I gather, Frederica Bernkastel describes her relationship to Rika Furude in a way that can more or less describe the relationship between Umineko No Naku Koro Ni and Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni: a Spiritual Successor of sorts! Wow, what an awesome and non-awkward way to get the some meaningful discussion started and making The Adversary stop coming up with stuff to fill the thread!

Thread starts now. I guess we can talk about Higurashi too. Mark your Visual Novel spoilers please.

Edit: I can't spell "successor".

edited 17th Jun '09 1:19:57 PM by TheAdversary

I'm currently progressing through the Umineko VNs, which are quite impressive. Fun characters, average to quite good music (especially in the tense bits, when they wheel out the Ominous Whatever Chanting and the techno beats), tight pacing, enthralling mystery.

Definitely a big step up from what little I've seen of the Higurashi VNs.

I'm not sure what to expect of the Anime version. The "standardized" character designs will take some time getting used to (I succombed to the charm of the cartoonier VN versions).

The first VN episode should be a very close adaptation, since it's mostly similar in tone with the Higurashi anime, and you can't cut a single scene once they're all on the island without wrecking up the plot (it's that tightly plotted).

On the other hand, I fear for the tea parties : they were completely skipped in Higurashi, but in Umineko even those in Episode One are absolutely crucial to the plot.

edited 22nd Jun '09 1:28:45 AM by Jhiday

Yes, I'm afraid they might cut out some of the more meta stuff, which is actually pretty bad because this story is all about that.

By the way, the new little red-headed girl with the ridiculous hat seems to be a combo Expy of Rena and Satoko. Does she have more substance that that? Knowing the author, I think the answer is going to be "yes" but I just want a confirmation. A spoiler-less confirmation.

edited 19th Jun '09 8:40:37 PM by TheAdversary

That's Maria. And while she shares a few common traits with Rena or Satoko (there's also some Rika and Hanyuu in there), she's very much her own character. (Interestingly, they gave her Hanyuu's VA in the anime.)

If you're really looking for an Expy, I'll point you towards Jessica (the blonde-haired girl), who reminds me a lot of Mion.

The entire main cast looks like expies. Battler would be Keichi, Maria is combo Rena-and-Satoko, Jessica always reminded me of Mion, Ange seems like she would fit the Sixth Ranger spot of Shion and let's not even begin with Bernkastel.

The more I read of the Umineko VNs, the more I think Battler is actually a Phoenix Wright Expy. I'm always expecting him to shout "Objection !" in every other scene.

I'm two thirds of the way in the 2nd VN, and, wow. I've now lost all hope of seeing this adapted decently. There's no way this can work in Anime form. They're screwing around with the paratext as a major plot point, for Haruhi's sake !

I wasn't expecting this at all. Horrible murders ? Impossible closed room scenarios ? Rampant paranoia ? Paranormal overtones ? Par for the course. But the way the plot unfolds in Ep2 is quickly becoming very silly. It's awesome, but in no way compatible with the über-serious feel I get from the anime trailer.

They could be trying to play it in a completely deadpan way, but I doubt it.

Okay, the first episode's out, and it's pretty much what I expected.

It covered exactly what I expected : nothing before the boat arrives (though there wasn't much of interest there), and the episode ends with Maria telling who gave her an umbrella.

I'm under the impression that a lot of the siblings' argument was left out : Kyrie says absolutely nothing, and Rosa doesn't participate in the wolves circling around Krauss (which makes Krauss's low blow against her come out of nowhere).

Other than that, it's mostly okay. This episode had to cover tons of exposition where nothing much happens (it's the most boring part of the least interesting chapter).

I'm not impressed with Battler's lecherousness (and the Most Common Superpower displayed by most of the female cast), but hopefully it'll quickly be toned down when things get serious.

That ladies sure have a lot of tits.

Now, I'm still working on getting the VN to properly run on my laptop but if Higurashi taught me anything, is that they spoil the shit out of everything in the OP. Between the bombardment of all the chess motifs, her hat, the sounds she makes (which are what one would expect from a seagull) and her sinister ("Sinister... Sinister...") laughter, I guess that that little girl Maria is going to be important. Really important. And possibly evil, because it's not like they have another virus to blame for her apparent batshit insanity. And besides, her "imaginary friend" is Beatrice and we all know how important was in Higurashi the last little girl with a being of phenomenal supernatural power for an imaginary friend.

No shit. But that's the point : you're supposed to find Maria creepy and watch her every move as soon as she's introduced. There's nothing really spoilerish about that.

But we do have an explanation for her behaviour in clear view right there in the first episode : parental abuse. Umineko takes Big, Screwed-Up Family to epic levels

I find it interesting that everything in the OP is relevant to the 1st & 2nd chapters. And even the 2nd chapter spoilers are very tame in comparison to what happens there. Maybe they'll change the OP once the Holy Shit Quotient goes off the charts ?

I also think they did a good choice in not revealing the whole epitath yet. "13 people sacrificied by the 8th twilight" is non-specific enough to make the events of the first chapter more suspenseful. (In the VN, you can check back the epitath at any time in the TIPS, which spoils things a bit.)

edited 4th Jul '09 3:18:41 AM by Jhiday

I say they'll do three seasons, two chapters in each of them. Only then they can do the whole story justice.

But they might have to get a bit pragmatic when dealing with Bernkastel and Lambdadelta because that's so postmodern it basically takes a dump all over Haruhi Suzumiya and wipes its ass with Lucky Star.

and I think worded myself a bit badly, i meant that even if Maria is as batshit as half the cast in Higurashi was, there's no way she could do a Heel–Face Turn because there's no virus to excuse her.

edited 4th Jul '09 9:51:52 AM by TheAdversary

I enjoyed higuarashi for all the insanity and the murders. I hope the characters are entertaining when they go batshit insane.

The current word of mouth is for a 26-episode series, which should cover the first 4 VN chapters. It's a good place to make a break, since the next VNs aren't out yet.

I expect the first chapter to be 6 episodes long, which is more or less what's needed. They'lle have to go through a lot of material in episode 2 (which will still have "nothing" happening at this rate) : I can understand why they've ommitted the exposition about Battler's familial status for time reasons in episode 1, but they'll need to explain it very soon. Since they're emphasizing the chess metaphor, I'm certain they'll be keeping a certain scene with Kyrie in episode 2, which should be the ideal place for this explanation.

I don't really see it. Whatever influence these characters will actually have in the plot, you don't need to know anything about them from Higurashi to understand it. They're very far from the most challenging element in the show, and fit seamlessly in context. Knowing what happened in Higurashi is just a bonus to understand their background.

No, the big challenge of the adaptation will be all the weird stuff around Beatrice. And the little glimpses in the OP and ED let me think they'll really go through with most of it. I'm not sure how they'll deal with the Interface Screw, but we'll see.

So you're already assuming that Maria will really do something, or that some people will be as murderingly insane as in Higurashi ?

Fufufufu.

It's good to see the Mind Screw is already working...

(Disclaimer : At this point, I still have no clue what is really happening. But I now know better than to assume anything about each character's responsability or sanity.)

Any of you played the games?

I've halfway through the third game. By that point, it gets very weird and confusing. But, er, not in a really good way : everything is more or less explained as it goes, it's just that the given explanation makes the whole thing a "Shaggy Dog" Story.

It's very well written, the pacing and characterizations are top-notch, but the actual plot is mind-boggling. From the 2nd chapter onwards, you keep wondering "surely it can't be that stupid ?"...

Wait, where'd you guys find the games? Were they translated?

You can't even write racist abuse in excrement on somebody's car without the politically correct brigade jumping down your throat!

http://witch-hunt.com/

The Witch Hunt. The translating group that is so loved by Ryuukishi07, he even gave them a "part" in episode 4. He actually added a foreign society of western detectives called "The Witch Hunt" to the story.

Now, on to solving the mystery. Spoilers for episode 2 (of the TV adaptation, not the VN):

Brutally killing 6 people (starting at midnight) and dragging them to the shed seems to be too much for a single person to handle, specially seeing how no-one looked particularly tired in the morning. I say there are at least two killers, one of which is probably a woman as she'd be the only one to be able to impersonate Beatrice. I say "probably" because that androgynous little shit Kannon could probably pull it anyways. Also, the killers get something from making Maria believe in witches. There are two reasons that come to mind: psychological warfare (they want to make everyone believe in witches for some reason and they want to work their way up from the most gullible to the most incredulous) or to undermine Maria's credibility (what does Maria know that would be hard to believe AND could help us finding the killer(s)?)

edited 10th Jul '09 10:24:38 AM by TheAdversary

That's grea- Aww, you have to purchase a copy first, and I have no (immediate) sources of money.

You can't even write racist abuse in excrement on somebody's car without the politically correct brigade jumping down your throat!

There's a free demo version of the first VN (and its respective translation patch), if you want to get a taste of it. It looks like it'll cover the first five episodes of the anime.

Anyway, episode 2... And they got a bit farther than I thought (there's so much running around before they actually get to the shed that I was afraid they'd cut at midnight).

Episode 2 was good, though they had so much material to go through that some cuts became a bit abrupt (from the dinner to Battler & Kyrie's conversation, for example).

If you want to compare with how the VN handled the same part of the plot, you can read the first two messages of my Live blogination thread (they stop at midnight).

Okay, we're now on to the third episode... and the plot thickens.

My thoughts :

• Eva is a bitch. Doing this kind of "prank" for no obvious reason shows a very devious sort of mind (OR she knows more than she lets on...). For some reason, they omitted the finishing touch from the VN (where she indicates near the end of the episode that she's glad Shannon is dead).
• For some reason, they inverted the Eva/Natsuhi confrontation and the kitchen scene. Well, whatever, it works nearly just as well in this order.
• They forgot Battler's taunt in the kitchen. Well, at least he won't get the Nice Job Breaking It, Hero/Tempting Fate reaction in the anime...
• Battler is so much a Phoenix Wright Expy. There's even a small silent space where he could have shouted "Objection!" (and everyone reacts as if he did)
• LOL at the Higurashi cameos
• Maria gets creepier (and more annoying) with each episode.
• I didn't really notice it before... but that door stays open with just the chain for quite some time with nobody watching. Hum...

I wonder where exactly they'll stop for next episode. I'd say when they finally open the second letter and/or find the third one, which leaves enough stuff to happen in the fifth episode.

A comment on the episode titles :

• Opening is straightforward enough
• First Move is slightly ambiguous. Is it about the shed ? the letter (but that move actually happened in the first ep) ? It doesn't help that the chess metaphor is broken already, since the first move is always part of the opening by definition...
• Dubious Move could qualify so much stuff in the 3rd ep... Is is Eva's attitude in general ? Grampa's bizarre behaviour ? Battler's dodgy logic ? The final closed room mystery ?
• Blunder... Okay, I leave this one for next time.

So, what did you think ?

edited 17th Jul '09 1:40:34 PM by Jhiday

So, the fourth episode...

The pacing is quite good : they managed to fit a tightly-paced two-hour sequence into 20 minutes. Also, while it ends at a natural cliffhanger, there's so little plot left that they pretty much HAVE to include the Tea Parties in the fifth episode. Which is a good thing, as they're crucial to the plot.

I love this version of Maria : she's creepy and annoying, but in a slightly endearing way. I think it's the way Battler playfully hits her that makes it work.

On the other hand, the atmosphere was severely lacking in parts, especially the crucial scene in Grampa's study. It's clean-lit and quite empty, when it should have been illuminated by thunder and filled with creepy occult stuff. (I mean, we saw that stuff in the first episode : why isn't it here ?) The single tincan of food is also bizarre (in the original, they brought enough canned food for eight people to last a day).

I'm looking forward to the next episode, if only to see the way they handle the massive tone shift.

Did anyone else the Higurashi reference in this fourth episode? The knife Kanon gets from the shelf is identical to Rena's. Guess it wasn't a meat cleaver after all.

Eh, didn't notice it. It's probably just a Shout-Out, since Kanon gets a completely different Weapon Of Choice from the second chapter onwards.

Episode 5 aired yesterday night. I only have one thing to say for the moment :

FUCK YEAH Bernkastel !

(More comments later, when I'll have had time to digest it.)

edited 30th Jul '09 12:36:24 AM by Jhiday

I like how the first thing Bernkastel does is saying "I'm not your 'friend'".

Yes, Bernkastel is indeed awesome (Not as awesome as Battler though), but who was she talking to at the end?

Also, Maria is an obnoxious twat who needs to be struck repeatedly about the head, face and body.

edited 30th Jul '09 8:19:18 PM by Wicked223

You can't even write racist abuse in excrement on somebody's car without the politically correct brigade jumping down your throat!