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InsanityPrelude Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Nov 15th 2010 at 7:04:07 PM

No problem, I have trouble interpreting tone even offline.

If we're going to put Absol (and Luxray?) in Panthera and Ursaring in Ursus does sticking the Meowth, Glameow, Choroneko and maybe Skitty lines under Felis seem reasonable? I don't have good species names in mind for any of them, mind.

SullenFrog Wait, he isn't dead! Shia Surprise! from Voormithadreth Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
Wait, he isn't dead! Shia Surprise!
Nov 15th 2010 at 7:11:49 PM

It seems reasonable to me. Keep in mind, however, that not every Pokemon derived from a real-world animal need belong to the corresponding genus, family and/or sub-family.

Take my totodile article, for example; even though Totodile and its evolutions are clearly crocodilians, the scientific names which I have given them label them as Aquacrocodilus, a completely fictitious family/genus.

The Danse Macabre Codex
Anomalocaris20 Salty AF from Sagittarius A* Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
Salty AF
Nov 15th 2010 at 7:32:18 PM

I'd say use them if it fits, avoid them if it doesn't, and modify them if you feel like it.

The fact that the world exists means nobody has had a TRUE 'everything bagel' yet. Twitch
SilentReverence adopting kitteh from 3 tiles right 1 tile up
adopting kitteh
Nov 15th 2010 at 8:24:28 PM

And in the meantime I call for someone to get me binomial names for Hoothoot, Noctowl, Surskit and Masquerain, my other entries already have those.

Crow was so nice to get me Venemeumonasteriense  *

for the Nidos and Teneraraptor for Zigzagoon; I don't recall where did I get Geosera for Lileep. Of course those are for discussion as well, JIC anyone is interested.

Now if you excuse me, I have a verb to adverbize.

Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?
Chronix Better than a cross.
Better than a cross.
Nov 15th 2010 at 10:09:21 PM

I still think we should tackle egg groups. The Pokeworld cognate to Genera?

Closet DCLAU fan.
Nov 15th 2010 at 11:05:13 PM

Wouldn't work as well, because the differences between members of the same evolutive branch are too strong to name them the same when scientific study is a purpose. The main problem is, as Chronix (I believe) mentioned some tens of pages ago, that you are assuming that taxonomy studies advanced the same way in their world as ours; however, the key difference that when a Pokémon evolves its structure can vary completely (Bronzor, Clamperl, to mention some examples) means that while in our world we classify down to the species as the item of "least significant difference", in their world each evolutive stage is the item of "least significant difference" as well. That's why, I'd guess, we went with "branchux stageis" naming schema instead. So I'd stay with that scheme for binomial names; it just doesn't strike me that their scientists would rationally choose a schema like ours.

It is called metamorphosis. A tadpole/caterpillar/leptocephalus are the same species as the frog/butterfly/eel they turn into. The objective of taxonomy (and cladistics) is to classify species, and changing species as something grows up, well, doesn't make much sense. True, we don't have to assume taxonomy evolved in the same way as it did in the real world, but, c'mon, all this is an attempt to make the series seem biologically more realist. You cannot say that species change if, as it is seen in most articles, evolution is not glowing white and changing shape, but it is something more gradual.

What species is a flowering Oddish with a widening mouth and the beggining of what will be 2 arms, then? If they are separate species, it is taxonomy even more awkward that what we have over here.

The different stage names, are more like common names for different stages of development. I see no reason to wreck taxonomy arround them, if it has to be used.

As for Egg groups, they overlap, you can belong to different ones, and have quite different Pokemon inside them, yet there are also similar things that do not belong in the same. No way that thing is an equivalent of genus. I'd say egg groups have compatible reproductive systems, but pretty much that's it.

edited 15th Nov '10 11:09:06 PM by Eriorguez

Tangent128 from Virginia Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
Nov 16th 2010 at 11:45:14 AM

What species is a flowering Oddish with a widening mouth and the beginning of what will be 2 arms, then? If they are separate species, it is taxonomy even more awkward that what we have over here.

True. But, awkward as our biological and astronomical taxonomies are, we are not the limit of how awkward systems can get. When metamorphoses are so common in the dominant wildlife, it's quite possible that they'll end up as the traditional grouping metric of lifeforms.

And from a practical perspective, since body structure can change significantly through a Pokémon's lifecycle, it's useful to be able to quickly refer to a specific stage when drawing comparisons between species.

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?
InsanityPrelude Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Nov 16th 2010 at 12:14:17 PM

I'd say egg groups would be somewhere higher on the taxonomic scale than genera, but that still doesn't account for the ones that are in two.

Edit: Updated the Meowth entry (courtesy link.) What else does it need?

edited 16th Nov '10 12:53:11 PM by InsanityPrelude

SalFishFin Ace with a Podao from A respectful distance away Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Ace with a Podao
Nov 16th 2010 at 2:04:53 PM

@Taxonomy discussion: 2-word Species name, then name for specific level of evolution.

3DS FC for PKMN & Smash:3583-2242-1801
Chronix Better than a cross.
Better than a cross.
Nov 17th 2010 at 9:05:07 PM

I side with Eri although I don't get the ", yet there are also similar things that do not belong in the same" comment. Explain?

As for the above, I propose we use a Binomial name with a hyphen. So Blankmon would be Blankerus monicus-1 and Blankermon would be Blankerus monicus-2

edited 17th Nov '10 9:07:10 PM by Chronix

Closet DCLAU fan.
SilentReverence adopting kitteh from 3 tiles right 1 tile up
adopting kitteh
Nov 18th 2010 at 7:20:13 AM

I oppose, on the only basis that it sounds better to have full actual names, istead of name-number, for the different species/levels. Besides, which one of the Eeveelutions is actually Eevee-2?

Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?
Nov 18th 2010 at 8:56:11 AM

I don't get the ", yet there are also similar things that do not belong in the same" comment. Explain?

I meant, things like Drowzee and Munna, which both are dream-eating tapirs, are not in the same group. There are some odd choices here and there, specially with the humanshape group in gen II, and the Indeterminate one overall.

As for the addition of a number, what about using, instead of those, an adjective refering to the life stage or phase the Pokemon is in? That way, Caterpie is, say, Earlybugus viridians Larva and Butterfree is Earlybugus viridians Imago; while Flareon is Sciurucanis varians Pyro phase and Vaporeon is Scirucanis varians Hydro phase. And, IIRC phases can cohexist in the same population without problem.

Chronix Better than a cross.
Better than a cross.
Nov 18th 2010 at 6:43:08 PM

Hmmm then I second Eri's platform. Although Humanshape argueably makes the most sense as a breedgroup. Any thirds?b

Closet DCLAU fan.
Anomalocaris20 Salty AF from Sagittarius A* Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
Salty AF
Nov 18th 2010 at 6:56:53 PM

Humanshape? Makes most sense? Ha. Ha. Ha.

Remember that it includes Cacturne, Volbeat, Illumise, Toxicroak, Magmar, etc.

The fact that the world exists means nobody has had a TRUE 'everything bagel' yet. Twitch
Chronix Better than a cross.
Better than a cross.
Nov 19th 2010 at 4:31:00 AM

All of those ca be lumped in a X-people(Cactus People, Bug People Lava People etc.) So their breeding is just there "People" halfs mating. And I notice we've been delibvertly vauge on evolution; good job.

Closet DCLAU fan.
Rainbow Relationship Status: Puppy love
Nov 19th 2010 at 1:37:51 PM

I was thinking about Psyduck, and I was wondering, how are we going to handle the thing about "it always has a headache and its powers get stronger when its headache does?" It seems like it might be something like that its brain can't handle all that psychic power yet and that's what causes the headache (which is why Golduck doesn't have that problem), but it seems like in the anime at least, increasing a Psyduck's head pain by an outside source also increases its powers. Perhaps such trauma makes a Psyduck's brain release psychic waves as a defense mechanism?

Maybe I should just take on Psyduck myself, unless someone else has called it?

Neo_Crimson Your army sucks. from behind your lines.
Your army sucks.
Nov 19th 2010 at 4:33:33 PM

I don't think its direct head pain that amplifies the Psyduck's power, but the stress caused by the pain inadvertently makes the omnipresent headache worse.

Sorry, I can't hear you from my FLYING METAL BOX!
AceOfScarabs I am now a shiny stone~ from Singapore Relationship Status: Drift compatible
I am now a shiny stone~
Nov 19th 2010 at 5:52:23 PM

I figure its the neurotransmitters being used that set off the pain centers in Psyduck's poor noggin.

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
Nov 19th 2010 at 6:41:56 PM

I'd say that at that stage, it has quite high blood pressure, and focusing tends to increase the pressure and therefore the pain; it is not the headaches what focuses the powers, but rather focusing the power what causes headaches. Aneurysms are considerably rare in Psyduck, and, as the individual reaches the Golduck stage, the pressure becomes more stable and doesn't cause headaches as often.

Headaches are consecuence of the nocioreceptors of the meninges and blood vessels of the brain being stimulated (the brain, ironically, doesn't detect anything that happens to it). Stimulating the pain centers of the brain would not produce a headache, but rather chronic widespread pain, one that sends things into a fetal position.

One thing about that family, that has to be taken into account: Duck or platypus?

Also, I dunno if it has already been mentioned, but, what do you think about the idea of the Weedle family being, instead of bees, bee-looking butterflies? It would explain why they resemble so much the Caterpie/Wurmple families, as well as making them more interesting that "3-feet hornets with 3 stingers, run". But that's just me...

Neo_Crimson Your army sucks. from behind your lines.
Your army sucks.
Nov 19th 2010 at 6:56:16 PM

^Butterflies are far from the only insect that goes through complete metamorphosis. I'm pretty sure bees do to (Larva->Pupa->Adult), though not as dramatically as butterflies.

Also speaking of Beedrill, I doubt they build hive-like structures and form relatively small (up to 25-30 individuals), nomadic colonies. Feeding on tree-sap and berries.

Also, Psyduck is a Platypus, the tail and lack of flying type are giveaways.

edited 19th Nov '10 6:57:25 PM by Neo_Crimson

Sorry, I can't hear you from my FLYING METAL BOX!
Blissey1 insert title here from a random Pokčcenter Relationship Status: I know
insert title here
Nov 19th 2010 at 9:20:21 PM

Beedrill, despite the name, are certainly more wasp/hornet then bee.

Now the Vespiqueen line? those are bees.

edited 19th Nov '10 9:20:38 PM by Blissey1

XP granted for befriending a giant magical spider!
Nov 19th 2010 at 10:00:34 PM

Butterflies are far from the only insect that goes through complete metamorphosis. I'm pretty sure bees do to (Larva->Pupa->Adult), though not as dramatically as butterflies.

I know, and bees do that (still, bee larva are enclosed as eggs and only emerge as adults, being fed when they are larvae; they are not independant and capable of stinging, that's more like what caterpillars do). But, I meant that, mostly because it is more like the other lines of early bugs in things like evolution, localizations, stats... So it could be a fringe theory or something like that.

SullenFrog Wait, he isn't dead! Shia Surprise! from Voormithadreth Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
Wait, he isn't dead! Shia Surprise!
Nov 20th 2010 at 3:25:33 PM

A little off-topic, but while perusing our page I noticed that we now have an article on Team Plasma.

I wasn't aware that we had written an entry concerning anything from Gen. V yet.

The Danse Macabre Codex
Marioguy128 Geomancer from various galaxies
Geomancer
Nov 20th 2010 at 3:36:29 PM

It was written by a troper named EPIC. I don't think this was authorized.

You got some dirt on you. Here's some more!
CaptainNapalm Totally Not a Schoolboy from a closet.
Totally Not a Schoolboy
Nov 20th 2010 at 3:49:32 PM

Meh, I don't really see a problem with it other than that it broke our thread's stance on G5 articles and bypassed the sharing/critiquing routine that we've got. Just save the content, upload a copy on the thread with proper attribution to be saved/critiqued and wipe the page until B/W hits the states. Also, we should probably shoot off a PM to let this "EPIC" guy know what's going on.

edited 20th Nov '10 3:49:48 PM by CaptainNapalm

Let's play a game about Pokémon...

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