Devil May Cry

goddammit can't play till the weekend

I guess what I'm saying is Credo never gets the real Vergil Treatment of an evolving nemesis and since him and Nero are suppose to be masters of the exceed system its weird that that aspect isn't incorporated into his boss fight. at higher levels.

Then again it might just be the fact DMC 4 was rushed

Is Credo a master of Exceed? IIRC the Red Queen's engine is a custom job and Credo's sword doesn't have one.

The Red Queen is a Custom version yes... but Remember Nero first fight with Dante he is using a Standard Order sword at first and it has the rev function

The Red Queen is a Buffed up version of an officer's sword which is what Credo supposedly has.

I mean you can see the Rev handle in his art and even when he is Angelo form it still has the Rev Engine incorporated into the Sword

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Dec 15th 2020 at 10:32:24 AM

going to other characters who didn't use in story mechanics all that well

Dm C Vergil not having any other weapons then Yamato really robs the fight of Tension since 80% is beating the hell out of Vergil till he pulls his trump card in Doppleganger

I suppose giving Vergil atleast one Demon and Angel weapon would have gone a long way to atleast backup Vergil's sudden confidence that he can take Dante when the Narrative has gone out of its way to show that Reboot Vergil is the Schemer/Brain and Reboot Dante is the fighter/ Brawn fuck Reboot Vergil needs Dante to save him from a Mook

I think the entire Dante vs Vergil was Team Ninja being to impatient and wanting to end the game on a Dante vs Vergil fight instead of saving it for a possible sequel 'then again they may have read the writing on the wall and just went fuck it lets do it anyway'

Foolishness, editor, foolishness

(Vergil can't summon two of em', that's part of the editing)

Edited by VutherA on Dec 16th 2020 at 2:04:38 PM

Also found out that sometimes you can control the Doppelganger during taunts, not sure why it's RNG

In some strange alternate timeline

Mundus unleashes his most dangerous agent to stop a demonic insurgence, a THREAT to his dominion

The opening and closing looking like Looney Tunes is strangely fitting considering the Sparda doodz consider physics more of a suggestion

The duality of relationships with half-devil men

Edited by VutherA on Dec 17th 2020 at 4:10:38 AM

So I was playing a bit of the Vergil DLC last night.

I'm a little underwhelmed, but I'm still glad it's here.

Vergil pretty much obliterates the games Difficulty

I mean so does Dante and Nero once you have everything unlocked but Vergil is just so front loaded that it takes Must Die mode before you realize oh yeah Vergil's got that bad hit recovery problem...

Though he does have a get back at you card now in the form of Sword Rain + popping DT/Doppelganger.

Then again the new characters aren't really designed with the Base game balance in mind. more what makes them freaking cool to play. ____

So I've been looking up Videos about the upcoming Mobile game..

and like all Chinese products does it got that doozy of trying to make sense.

Almost as much a alternative continuity as Dm C.

I've only seen one "unique" enemy boss

and I say unique in that i can't tell if its just a poorly reskinned Goliath with a lightning motif even though it barely uses that power

Weapon Skins!

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Dec 25th 2020 at 10:59:04 AM

My only issue with Vergil in 5 is that they really didn't do as much as they could to overhaul his moveset.

I get not fixing what isn't broke, but it would have nice to get some more new stuff to work with.

But its still Vergil, and he's still fun as fuck.

I think Vergil keeping the same weapons is kinda to make it a foil to Dante, who gets new weapons every game but discards the others (except for Rebellion and Ebony & Ivory), meanwhile Vergil keeps the same three weapons every game but practices more with them so he can do stuff like Super Attacks that Dante can't.

It sorta screwed up because Vergil having those weapons in 4 is non canon but I think it still works.

To be fair Dante does get the same four weapons

E & I Shotgun

Broadsword/Rebellion Gauntlets

The issue with the Gauntlets is Balrog is the first to actually break away from the Ifrit Clone

While Ifrit, Beowulf and Gilgamesh overlap 'Shoto!' all Gilgamesh did was take away the fireball and replace it with a ground pound. 'Its so weird that Vergil by default can't do the fireball even though that was his standard ranged attack in 1 as Nelo'

Vergil having the same weapons I do think is for consistency's sake and him having his boss weapons just make it easier to say Yep thats Vergil.

since outside of the Nelo Sword Vergil having any other weapons wouldn't make sense.

____

I mean if Vergil was gonna pull out any New abilities it would have been due to his remerging. but Vergil 4's gimmick is he has Doppelganger... Which is either a Big take that to Dm C or a Big Acknowledgement of Dm C depending on how you want to look at them taking that Vergil fight and making it better

I mean him pulling out Devil arms based on his Familiars/the DMC 1 Bosses would have been neat but then you wouldn't have the whole Vergil just wants to forget the trauma fight earlier.

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Dec 26th 2020 at 6:24:30 AM

Given how drastically different V's playstyle & Urizen's boss fight is to Vergil's it is a little disappointing that he doesn't incorporate any of their styles into his own. The closest thing to that would probably be his Doppelganger for his Devil Trigger.

I think the issue is Vergil as an opponent has always been a progression

Vergil 1 : Yamato

Vergil 2: Yamato + Beowulf

Vergil 3: Yamato + Force Edge + Summon Swords -and of course on higher difficulties Vergil starts using the summon swords in earlier fights'

Vergil 4 is unique in that it essential continues the trend from DMC 3 but even though you fight him twice He doesn't change all that much

So in some way Vergil 4 is perfectly fine...

Its Yamato + Summoned Swords + Doppelganger

but the only thing that mixes things up is WHO is fighting him.

and then there is of course the Dm C thing

I will continue to say Dm C Vergil needed alot more in that Dm C fight to stand out 'atleast a Devil and Angel weapon of his own to go with the Yamato' so lets be honest the choice to use the exact same gimmick for 5's Vergil fight also means we've seen this before.

A Merry Christmas from Dan Southworth.

That was actually pretty motivational

Finally figured out how to actually pay for DLC on PS 4 (thanks third world!) and been giving Vergil a whirl. He's fun! Some assorted impressions:

• He plays closest to Dante, appropriately enough, but the key differences he has throw off my muscle memory.
• His mobility feels either way overpowered or lacking depending on the situation. His Air Trick is extremely spammable but it requires a Mirage Blade on the target, so for example shielded Baphomets can't be AT'd to. No normal double jump, aerial dodge and grounded trick dodge being fairly laggy all contribute to this.
• Building off of that, he feels very momentum-based. When you're on a roll he feels extremely overpowered, just switching seamlessly between targets and overwhelming every enemy, but if you get hit once or twice it's easy to lose your groove and find it hard to get back in the fight. Part of this is due to the Concentration gauge, but also his worse defensive options compared to Dante and Nero.
• I kinda assumed Concentration would work more or less like Style (gain it by doing your thing, lose it by getting hit, so far so good), but it's meaningfully different. Losing it by missing attacks and gaining rather little for consecutive hits, instead "farming" it off enemies by walking slowly and timing dodges takes a bit of getting used to.
• Even though as mentioned once you get hit you lose all Concentration and it isn't trivial to get it all back in the middle of a hectic fight, the ultimate moves are pretty ridiculously overpowered. It's incredible how many encounters are immediately solved if you don't feel like dealing with them by going "eh fuck it, Judgment Cut End". Hell on Earth is absurd against bosses and big enemies, way more than the rough equivalents in Real Impact and Punchline Breakage. The conditions for them are a bit too easy for how insanely strong they are, though. Oh and Deep Stinger exists too.
• Non-SDT ultimate moves being strictly worse than SDT ones is a weird choice. You spend all your SDT gauge instead of a quarter or so, have no super armor, and deal less damage. I like the idea of base form JCE for the aesthetic, but there's literally no reason to ever do it. Maybe aping Quadruple S and tying it to Style would've been a better idea.
• He's slightly lacking in aerial offensive options, I feel, though that's compared to Dante (he's roughly equal to Nero).
• Compared to how good and complete Yamato and Beowulf are, Mirage Edge feels a tad aimless. I mainly use it for Drive and horizontal aerial mobility with Stinger, anything else it just doesn't feel as good as Yamato.
• Doppelganger is fine, but 90% of the time I'd prefer to be in SDT instead and use the DT gauge as a backup battery. Since Vergil's SDT is pretty much just DT with extra steps as opposed to Dante's SDT being a radically different thing, it feels a bit obligatory.
• Speaking of obligatory, Vergil's block move feels like they just had to put it somewhere because his boss fight uses it but they ran out of buttons so they unintuitively put it on lock-on. It costing Concentration is exactly the opposite of what you'd think it would do, and renders it a minor sideshow rather than a useful part of his kit.
• World of V is cool, and unless you're dying to mobs (and you're Vergil, why would you be?) you'll never use it.
• Consecutive Just Cuts are hard as fuck. I think it's like a 3 frame window? I can't do them for the life of me, I need a ton of practice.
• The fact that Vergil just goes through the levels with not cutscenes or anything made me realize how much the characters bring the game to life and, no joke, how engaging the story (first two acts at least) is. The core attraction of DMC is the combat, but the characters are a close second and 5 specifically uses them better than pretty much any of the previous games (in terms of banter, shifting viewpoints and so getting you to care and be entertained by them).

Overall, five dollars well spent and I'll be looking forward to many hours of Bloody Palace and missions 19/20. Speaking of which, gonna go get my ass kicked by Dante now.

A preview of part 2 of the video "What if Vergil and Dante Switched" by Champion Analysis. Preview is 13 minutes.

Man a Nero vs Dante and Vergil handicap would have been Badass...

well any Handicap would have been Badass

Dante vs Vergil and Nero

Vergil vs Dante and Nero

Though I pretty sure the problem with Nero was the couldn't figure out how to program his breakers into a CPU

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Dec 31st 2020 at 1:55:45 PM

Been a while but I always figure that could have a notable start-up for Nero's Breakers.

Then again, given DMC's hardcore Character Action status I never really saw why they wouldn't just implement Nero just the way he is.

Why do I get the feeling that Mundus may have been an inspiration for the Weeping Angels from Doctor Who?

He's literally just an angel statue tho. If the Weeping Angels have any videogame influence, its the Boos from Mario.