Persona series

I can see that. Both final bosses of P4 and P5 seem only to exist to give an epic fight against a god. Maybe P6 would have the human antagonist seizing the power of the god for himself.

Speaking of gods, where are the "good" personifications of humanity? Izanami, Erebus, Kagutsuchi, Miku, Yaldy, all represent negative qualities of humans. The closest we have for a positive one is Morgana, and he's explicitly created by Igor.

I've been wondering the same.

Outside of Philemon (who was still kinda shady, and ended up getting punched in the face for his efforts) and of course Igor (who himself was only a servant originally), there seem to be no benevolent gods in this setting.

Well, Marie might count after she gets over her shit, since she's an aspect of Izanami herself.

One Strip! One Strip!

Well actually, Yaldabaoth fits the tone, themes, and scope of Persona 5's story better than Izanami ever did. So did Nyx and her Avatar. Persona 4 should have ended as the lower scale story it started as instead of adding an apocalyptic villain that went completely against that.

Yaldy's roal in myth is trying to imprison all life in the material universe and proclaiming himself to be the Creator. All the while ignorant and prideful to realize his folly.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

Yeah, but everything before that builds up to Shido as the main villain. Yaldabaoth is Izanami done right, but I wouldn't say it doesn't feel tacked on.

Marie is weird. All other gods are born from one of humanity's traits and act according to that trait. Marie, OTOH, has two roles. Not only that, her influence seem to only affect Inaba.

Edited by TrueShadow1 on Dec 16th 2018 at 6:18:42 AM

Agree to disagree then. I personally think he's far too important to the story and its themes to be excluded without issue, and just like yourself there's no argument that can convince me otherwise.

Edited by VeryMelon on Dec 16th 2018 at 9:18:30 AM

@True Shadow

Doubt it, thought they can at least give more focus on the human antagonist for once. Atlus is pretty conservative, even in non-Persona stuff. The SMT spin offs really should be more varied than what they're.

Watch me destroying my country

@TrueShadow: They're nowhere because that means humanity has their shit together.

Alternatively, it is easier to justify the existence of everything bad through a physical manifestation than the existence of everything good.

Continue the bloodline, Fujimaru!

All the Persona games have this big Existentialist message. Life is shitty, people are shitty, but you believe anyway. The earlier poster that said it's the journey that matters summed it up well. Even if you ultimately accomplish nothing, it wasn't meaningless as long as you believe it wasn't meaningless.

The heroes often make very little changes in the cosmic scheme of things. The same human frailty that created Nyarly and Valdy is still there. It will always be there. It's just that Philemon's chosen are supposed to be paragons that show what all of humanity could become. We can fight off our desire for destruction or death or apathy. To put it in Xenosaga's popular terminology, the heroes are waves or ripples whose light will spread throughout the whole.

I would like to see an embodiment of humanity's good side, though.

Or, conversely, to counteract the theme of Humanity Fuck Yeah, I would like to see some sort of Van Helsing Hate Crimes in P6.

The protagonists summon them. It's most blatant with P4 and P5, where the final battle has them using a unique persona to deliver a finishing move, but even the P3 protagonist had Messiah as his ultimate persona.

Why do the protagonists have to work so hard in order to summon the good guys that ultimately defeat the bad guys, while the bad guys get to run around mucking things up with no restrictions? There's no good answer to that that I know of, other than "because otherwise the protagonists wouldn't have anything to do".

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Well the Gods prolly think "Yeah I can do something but where's the fun in that?"

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Next Persona game ditches the formalities and just has the protagonist be a god. Go full anime with it and make them amnesiac too. At the end, they have the option to go back to being a god or staying on Earth. Staying on Earth unlocks the true ending.

This song needs more love.

The true message of Persona series is that democracy is bad because we always end up letting some cosmic force fuck us over.

Continue the bloodline, Fujimaru!

That actually does sound pretty fun.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

I'd play that.

The White Were Right.

If that's the case, then how come they lost to me?

One Strip! One Strip!

That could be an interesting angle. Instead of having to defend humanity from the supernatural threat du jour, something humanity is doing is causing chaos in the supernatural world and threatening friendly (or at least not hostile) spirits of some sort, which then threatens to loop back and negatively affect the human world. Bonus points if it's a negative feedback loop (ie, whatever set humanity off in the first place is made worse by the harm done to the spirits, which makes humanity even angrier, etc).

Hm, what would be the big theme you could tie that into? P3 was Death, P4 was Truth, and P5 was either Justice or Rebellion depending on how you look at it...

Maybe P6 could be something like Fear? Some sort of mass hysteria plot were people are panicking over an old superstition, but because supernatural shenanigans get involved, whatever they're panicking over starts actually being true. You could do a lot with that sort of premise — a "spooky woods" dungeon, a "haunted house" dungeon, etc. Clearing each dungeon would require action both in the supernatural world and in the mundane world, to defeat the supernatural problems caused by the fear while also showing people that there's nothing to be afraid of. I really liked the concept in P5 where the normal world and the metaverse affected each other, but they didn't really do much with the idea, so they could expand on it in P6.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Honestly I really liked Strange Journey Redux new endings because it pretty much takes a Cynical approach to what Ishida originally conceived for Strange Journey. Humanity sucks, and no amount of hope will change it, and I dont think its a coincidence considering how the dangers of Global Warming have become more obvious and yet some nations still stick to the path that will destroy them in the long run for short term economic growth. Or plain delusional in the case of the Orange Faced Clown.

Its likely why he wrote the Law/Chaos+ as more positive despite rewriting/upheaval of human society whereas Neutral+ is far more cynical and all a lone human Even a Transhuman Immortal Doomguy can do is put a bandaid over the mess that humanity will pull off every time.

Its why Im wondering if we'll get a Persona game that actually tries to bring some change to society in a later game considering just how much humanity as a whole loves its Status Quo.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Dec 17th 2018 at 5:05:26 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

I don't think you have played the older Persona games (correct me if I am wrong and if so, sorry) but the last part sounds like Persona 2. The big thing in Persona 2 is rumors becoming reality. A similar idea being used is perfectly cool, though. It's a good premise.

But yeah, the Fear theme would totally fit in with new Persona and make a really interesting agme.

Have you come around to The White's salvation then?

Edited by Nikkolas on Dec 17th 2018 at 6:05:46 AM

No the White are a Meme whose goals are small minded and inconsequential.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

I mean...your actions effect the entire universe.

isn't that equivalent to your actions in SJ?

And Persona 3 FES is done!

I was really happy that with less than a week left I figured out I could skip an Aigis day and use the Shrine on the Career Monday instead which let me max Mitsuru. Which is great because in trying to correct Yukari I messed up Empress to only get Rank 9 with either her or Aigis.

I went into Nyx a little over-leveled at 80, cause I heard it was a difficult fight.

Basically shuffled between Norn and Odin for parts 1-12 and stayed Norn with occasional changes to the Hierophant Ultimate Persona when I needed Minato to heal once or twice.

Night Queen was so stressful when she spammed it 4 times in the last 5 turns. Got berserked twice on Minato, but managed to pull though.

Got very lucky and no Charms, and on the final turn she instead of using it again used Mind Charge + Garudyne on Minato with Norn, which was just fantastic.

Special shout out to Yukari for at one point using a Medicine instead of Mediarahan right after the party got hit by double Almighty Strike on the turn Aigis's Defense buff has worn off.

Really enjoyed the ending credits music, man that is a nice song.

I should probably play The Answer at some point, but I've heard its super grindy, so I may just watch cutscenes online later. I think I heard 30 hours? And I could fit a whole other game in that.

Without having too much time to mull it over, I think for me its roughly Persona 3 = Persona 5 > Persona 4.

SEES was pretty great, although the blandness of Minato bugged me quite a bit.

Specifically in the ending, whenever he was on screen it just took away my emotional investment.

I didn't get that with Yu or Akira.

Edited by 32ndfreeze on Dec 18th 2018 at 2:20:45 AM

Nah see the White have deluded themselves into believing that destroying the universe ends everything and how it all ends in nothingness, but the Mangas had White!Flynn do a Literal Split Personality and every other choice ensures a new universe branches off so that their actions are meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

The White just want to kill themselves and take everyone else down with them. Even Dagda was smarter in his approach to thst since he sexually identifies as Wind & Rain.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

Any particular reason you prefer those two games to 4? The characters, the music, etc.?

I mean, The White reminded me of the True Demon Ending to an extent. One of the reasons they give you to try and make you go TDE is the fate of poor Hijiri. And when Lucifer speaks at the end he specifically brings up the endless cycle of destruction and rebirth that you have finally stopped.

I don't think the existence of alternate universes should keep you from caring about saving your own universe.

Ah but TDE is not the end. The end of the Universe sure, but life goes on, which is intended.

The White have no grand goals or objectives. Even their screw you to YHVH means nothing because YHV Hs Universe exists outside the universe in his little Egoverse.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Dec 17th 2018 at 7:26:12 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.