Persona series

All that talk from the previous page is now wanting me to see a Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse style Persona game where people's feelings bring back YHVH and he's the Final Boss (Yes, I know that Yaldabaoth is essentially him in Persona 5).

Like the Demiurge from the previous mainline SMT games, and Sekinah from Strange Journey Redux, P5 Yaldabaoth is likely another aspect of mainline SMT YHVH that appeared in the P Ersona verse because of Amala Network bullshit.

The only solution is nonexistence.

Nah something something Raidou Kuzunoha on Lucifers behalf defeated God and thats why the timeline was allowed to go down a different path. YHVH already oredetermined SMTI-II to be destined and killing God can change Fate.

But seriously, The White wanted to destroy mankind to free it from YHVH but what about the rest of the world being freed from mankind? Beings like Nyarly and Valdy are apparently our fault. As long as we exist, they will continue to be recreated.

In short, Evil exists solely due to humans existing.

Alien Star Gods will just remake humanity and wipe the planet out occassionally.

Nyx wasn't even a concept originally it was an alien thing that crashed into earth and became death.

So tell me, you know SMT lore.

Did demons and gods and ther est of it only come about due to humans? Because like I've been saying since I first played it, SJ talks all about how they existed before humans.

But somebody is saying The Great Will prefers humans and Observation and that the demons are just deluded and believe their own hype because they were made that way.

Yeah, nyarly, yaldy and erebus are our fault but so are philemon,and by extension the velvet room residents, morgana annnnnd I think izanami was supposed to embody something positive even though she's an antagonist ? and as ridiculous morgana can be and how much of an imbecile philemon can be, in the end they're the one who won.

nonexistence will happen sooner or later anyway. I don't see the need to rush it out and waste the biggest thing you could be given : a life.

I'm a firm beliver of the phrase "To live is to suffer. To survive is to find a meaning to the suffering." of nietzsche. Sure, life can be hard, but it's not impossible to be happy. Nor particularly hard. and overcoming the hardships is probably the best thing that can happen to you in life.

Also, I'm not versed in smt lore, but considering those guys are embodiements of emotions, it's a pretty safe bet the problem isn't humanity, it's the very notion of consciousness and those things could happen to any species with the same level of sentience than humants. So if you gotta kill every human-level sentient species to make the bad guys go away, who will profit of it ? It's not like the universe has the ability to care about what happens to it on a fundamental level. Except if we count the great will as the universe, but apparently it agrees with me since they want to help humanity.

Edited by Yumil on Oct 14th 2018 at 9:03:10 PM

The Heat Death of the Universe is prevented by a life of Happiness -Philemon as Nodens.

And its a Chicken and Egg scenario. So the answer to did humans make Gods and Demons or did they nake us is a Yes

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Oct 14th 2018 at 12:12:18 PM

Then again the universe would be very boring without competitors.

So we should be grateful to those God’s for having fun with us.

Chaos dog! We humans should only welcome order and stability!

You've clearly been corrupted by P5.

and you have had too much of ... wait, was there one time where law was unambiguosly the good ending in a smt ? Ah fuck it, i'mma say SJR's law+.

Edited by Yumil on Oct 14th 2018 at 9:56:14 PM

The original SJ Law Ending was great.

What's wrong with eternal peace and harmony?

The lack of free will, I assume.

Plus it be pretty boring.

yeah, that. honestly, while I can often say chaos has a point/isn't completely unsalvageable, I never remotely understood the reasoning behind law. a World of Silence would probably make a good ironic hell to me. What even is the point of being alive anymore if you can only sing the lord's praise all day ?

What was the point of life to begin with?

The Persona games are all big on this. Every single one of them has our heroes fighting some embodiment of human frailty. They make big speeches about how life is meaningless and and people are terrible. But these handful of Japanese high schoolers will light the way to a new path. They will show us how humanity can fix itself and cast off Valdy and Nyarly and whatnot ie. cast off our imperfections and make the world a better place.

But can they and will they?

But isn’t our imperfections what makes us human?

If we are perfect then we are not really human anymore.

Life will always have cracks, but that doesn’t mean it’s always broken. It’s just something we have to live with forever until death.

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 14th 2018 at 2:43:18 AM

life has no purpose to begin with. That's the point. that's why we're free to come up with our own answer and do something with the life we've been given. Life has no purpose and we're not gonna live long, so BETTER MAKE IT WORTHWHILE, DAMMIT !

The persona games aren't about casting off much too,as that runs contrary to the whole jungan psychology theme, and more about accepting our flaws and learning how we can move on with it and still become a better person. it's because life is fundamentally imperfect than striving to become a better person is admirable. if we were programmed to do that, it wouldn't be surprising, it would be expected.

Humanity can improve, the playable cast is proof of that. Will they ? not by throwing away their freedom to someone else. Human is condemned to be free, indeed, and as such there's no running away from what you do. You can cast away your free will and let an arbitrarily chosen god sort it out, but as you said it before, you did that of your own choice, and you will never be able to run away from that fact.

Edited by Yumil on Oct 14th 2018 at 11:35:39 AM

But why is that wrong? Why is it wrong to cast away your choice to make choices if it makes you happy? Freedom is not an inherent good. A lot of people would be happier without it, even if it's an illusion.

Of course, the whole point of SMT is that it is isn't an illusion. Your choices are no longer just your own as the start of SMTIV tells us. Whether it's Law, Neutral or Chaos or or P5's Bad Ending, you decide for the rest of the world how it will exist. Choice is an illusion for much of the population.

Both SMT and Persona seem to favor the status quo, not rocking the boat too hard. But in the end you and you alone still decide the fate of billions of other people. Even choosing to keep things the same is a choice and should be viewed as blameworthy as choosing to hand things over to YHVH or Lucifer.

Edited by Nikkolas on Oct 14th 2018 at 3:04:19 AM

it's not wrong, and I don't think that's the point of the phrase(and if it is, well fuck it, sartre was wrong but i'm not.) many people in real life find a purpose in religion they wouldn't otherwise. And that's fine, so long as they don't start shitting on other people's lawn (yhvy has trouble with grasping that)(that also apply to anyone in any circumstance, not just religious people).

But the thing is, it's still your choice that you decided to make. Just because you chose to cast away you're freedom doesn't make you blameless, and you will always be accountable for making that choice.

Just like every other choice in life, mind you, but this one in particular because it voids the inherent idea of discarding all of your responsibilities to someone else, precisely because that in itself is a valid choice you're responsible for.

So it's not that it's a bad thing, it's just that you still have responsibilities. that's why man is "condemned" to be free. Because you can't truly lose your freedom, no matter how you try.

That's more or less the line of thought the nuremberg tribunal choosed to follow when dealing with nazis who were "just following orders".

I wholeheartedly agree that choosing to preserve the status quo isn't a neutral option at all though, and a choice in and of itself, and the golden mean fallacy is pretty much written all over SMT as a concept. It works slightly better for persona because the alternative is presented as really bad because they don't expect you to choose between the two.

But yeah, neutrality being a choice is my main axe of reflexion as to whether or not i'm going for neutral + or If i decide to say fuck it and go for chaos. or maybe law, but i really dislike the idea of potentially taking away humanity's will to defend against ANYTHING.

Edited by Yumil on Oct 14th 2018 at 12:26:04 PM

@Nikkolas: Id say the fact original Law they were making Soldiers of God out of those brainwashed to kill in the Lords name to cull those who were unworthy, even though the worthy could include Mercenaries who profit form mad science and war while the unworthy can include children who have done literally nothing wrong.

That and new details revealing they are literally disposable and only served as an alternate power source for Female YHVH.

Which is why Law+ fixed that little problem and allowed all humans to live.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Oct 14th 2018 at 3:34:55 AM

For a change of topic, Labrya is a way better protagonist than Yu in Ultimax. First she still has doubts about her being the newcomer who doesn't fit in. Then she finds out about the parallels between her and Sho, and tries to save him. Oh, and she beats the crap outta the final boss all alone without some cheesy Persona fusion asspull. She might be my favorite Persona character of all time. She hasn't appeared in any media besides the Arena games, has she? That's a shame.

On another note, that scene where Shadow Labrys appears and beat the crap outta Sho was one of the best moments in the game. One-Scene Wonder Crowning Moment Of Awesome indeed.

Yeah itnwas finallyntime a Anti-Shadow Weapon lived up to their purpose. Labrys does just that against Kagutsuchi.

I just realized: Android 21 is very much a ripoff of Labrys.