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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#85801: Apr 20th 2019 at 12:27:25 AM

So, was there any character that should have had a Bankai that you were really disappointed that we didn't see?

Actually, I'm not even sure how many characters there were like that. It's been awhile since I've thought about it.

KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#85802: Apr 20th 2019 at 1:57:16 AM

[up] Yoruichi, Ukitake, the five members of Squad Zero, Isshin (who, whether he is capable of using it anymore had access to it a some point), Shinji (not counting the novels) and Love. Whether Tessai's former position required that he have achieved bankai is debatable. (Similarly while we see Hachigen's Zanpaktou, it's never released even at shikai).

Comun Since: Jun, 2012
#85803: Apr 20th 2019 at 7:33:34 AM

Well, that just listed everyone except Aizen.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#85804: Apr 20th 2019 at 12:52:06 PM

With how impressive his right hand man was, that we never saw Tessai go all out is one of my biggest disappointments with the series.

KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#85805: Apr 20th 2019 at 5:02:36 PM

[up][up] I was trying to answer the "how many characters" question. Though yes, I did forget Aizen. (Possibly because of my theory that he never actually achieved bankai and just used his shikai to hypnotise everyone into thinking he had). For me personally it's more that I'm annoyed we never got to see Yoruichi's zanpakuto at all.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#85806: Apr 25th 2019 at 5:53:22 PM

Wasn't there something about how Aizen could only use his Bankai on someone who had already seen his Shikai? Is that something from these novels?

doineedaname from Eastern US Since: Nov, 2010
#85807: Apr 27th 2019 at 7:36:00 PM

I saw on another site some new bits of the LN mentioned.

This part is Aizen-centric. Aizen is in Muken and senses Hisagi's Tousen-related character development. He flashbacks when he asked Tousen if he had any wish he wanted granted as a reward for being the closest thing Aizen had to a friend.

Tousen asks him to destroy him completely if he ever starts to accept the Shinigami, since he already went against Kakyo's wish for justice by working with Aizen and if he was to go back on that then his actions would just be murder.

Tousen's fear of forgiving the shinigami has Aizen mentioning how sometimes fear is necessary for evolution while looking at the incomplete Hogyoku.

Then Aizen asks what if they win and Aizen creates a new world and Tousen says that someone who is vengeance obsessed shouldn't exist in Aizen's new world so Tousen would kill himself. Either way Aizen loses his one and only 'confidant' but Aizen still agrees to fulfill his wish. Aizen is interested to see where Hisagi's path following Tousen leads him even if it ends with Aizen stepping over his corpse.

Edited by doineedaname on Apr 27th 2019 at 10:36:22 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#85808: Apr 27th 2019 at 7:37:40 PM

Huh, making Aizen blowing Tosen up less douchey is an interesting choice.

Edited by LSBK on Apr 28th 2019 at 6:10:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#85809: Apr 28th 2019 at 9:57:42 AM

Honestly, it's just stupid. Is there any villain Narita won't turn into a sweet, misunderstood little lamb?

Comun Since: Jun, 2012
#85810: Apr 28th 2019 at 10:42:48 AM

[up]Tokinada, probably.

Edited by Comun on Apr 28th 2019 at 1:43:17 PM

doineedaname from Eastern US Since: Nov, 2010
#85811: Apr 28th 2019 at 10:50:18 AM

[up][up] Soul Society and the Shinigami.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#85812: Apr 28th 2019 at 5:01:27 PM

At least with Aizen Kubo tried implying there was more to him, even if he never actually elaborated on what that was.

bandersnitch Since: Aug, 2016
#85813: Apr 29th 2019 at 5:22:19 PM

Doesn't that apply to most of the important villains in Bleach? Not counting one-off characters like Driscoll, the only villains without any humanizing or sympathetic features whatsoever would be Szayel, Barragan and Aaroniero. When it comes to Tokinada the next badges of the novel will give a definite answer. Also what Hisagi's Bankai does.

     pages 222 - 338 

- The reason Kazeshini is not considered a dual wield Zanpakto is because the essence of the Zanpakto is the chain, not the sickles. The more important reason is because there is only one spirit inside Hisagi. Ichigo has Yhwach and White, who both make up Zangetsu. Shunsui gained the second sword when Ohana gave birth to the lunatic, so that the Ise sword could be hidden. Ukiakte's symbiosis with Mimihagi is the reason he is dual wielding.

- In Bankai the chains of Kazeshini increase ten fold. They form a tree that is connected to a black sun made of millions of chains. These chains then wrap around Hikone and Hisagi. Hikone tries to kill Hisagi with a Cero, but Hisagi is unscathed. He and then uses Blut Vene Anhaben to take over Hisagi's body. That doesn't work either. Each time the chains negate the damage. The two are bound within a certain area and when Hikone tries to escape, the chains wrap around his neck and drag him back. Hisagi cuts Hikone's arm off to show that Hikone is likewise invulnerable now, as his arm was whole again. His reiatsu was building up through the chains and accumulating in the 'black sun' overhead. The chains take the Reiatsu of the combatants and transfer it to the black sun, where it is averaged. This reiatsu was being used to restore the injured person to their original state. In other words, as long as Hikone continues to cut down Hisagi, Hisagi's wounds would be healed by the consumption of reiatsu of both Hikone and Hisagi and vice-versa.

- That also means either both will survive the Bankai or neither. Of course, if an ally is nearby, they can interfere and kill the enemy at the cost of Hisagi's life, once the opponent is exhausted enough. It is quite the Kamikaze-technique.

- The Bankai does not prevent pain though and the pain remains as long as the Bankai is active. The novel admits, this could easily be used to torture Hisagi and break his souls and sanity completely. Luckily for him, Hikone has no idea how to do that.

- Hisagi's Shikai of Kazeshini represent the current world, where life and death exist as separate things, flowing freely like the wind. His Bankai represents the old world, where there is neither death nor life, regression or evolution. It also represent the Soul King, who is trapped for eternity in a place with no life or death, progress or stillness.

- Hikone asks Hisagi to lift the Bankai, since that will only mean continued pain. Hisagi doesn't and Hikone apologizes for having to hurt him. Hisagi's flesh gouges in, the ribs break, and the internal organs get ruptured. Hikone asks for forgiveness while attacking Hisagi. Hisagi just tells him, if he feels sorry, he shouldn't do that in the first place and certainly not keep doing it, as suffering isn't exactly Hisagi's hobby. Hikone tries to argue that he is doing it for Tokinada. Hisagi just tells him, he is just shifting the blame to Tokinada. He also tells him that it is wrong to hurt someone who doesn't resist. This also is a Take That! against the founders of Soul Society who did exactly that against the Soul King.

- Hikone has now to think for himself, something he had never done before. For now he tries to find an easier way to defeat Hisagi that doesn't involve pain. Hisagi tells him, that Hikone has a sense of right and wrong, as Hikone is able to realize that causing someone pain is not a good thing. Hikone can't rely anymore on Tokinada and asks Hisagi what he should do. Hisagi tells him, that he has to figure that out on his own, as the world won't always be kind to Hikone. Hikone begins to break down. Hisagi tells Hikone that he is no one's puppet and a person. And a person has to think for themselves.

     pages 339- 344 
Then, Hisagi moved one of his fingers, controlling a part of the chain, taking out the two scythes from within the shadow on the ground; the shadow from earlier.

"You don't wish to cut someone who isn't resisting, yes? Then let me be your opponent; someone whom you won't feel bad about slashing."

"Eh...?"

"I have a lot to teach you. So make sure you start learning."

Although Hikone was so much more stronger than him, Hisagi said such a thing. He pointed the blade of Kazeshini towards Hikone; whereas Hikone was confused by his words.

"Do not hold back. If I were an enemy, then I should be dead by now."

"...."

"When facing an enemy, always position yourself to be able to side-step an attack. So always take half a step backwards."

Hisagi taught Hikone the same thing Tosen had once told him.

So as not to be confused any more, so as to reject Hisagi's words, so as to block off Hisagi's teachings from his mind, Hikone knocked aside the blade of Kazeshini and cut Hisagi.

"Aaaaaaaaaaah! Shut up, shut up, shut up!"

And once again, Hisagi's body was restored soon after. In return, the blade of Hisagi stopped right at Hikone's neck and penetrated through.

"Ah...."

"See? Now you're dead too. You're much stronger than me, aren't you? But you are full of openings. Do not leave such gaps in your defence."

Hikone may have been a prodigy when it came to battle, but he lacked experience. In light of this unique situation, in which it is possible to 'not die even if one is killed', Hisagi's high level of discipline and the finesse in his swordplay, easily surpassed Hikone's techniques.

"Wrong... You're wrong... I grew stronger... in order to be useful to Tokinada-sama. For his sake...."

"That's not what should concern you. There are plenty of other things in life that you ought to be afraid of and this is not one of them. Fear is the only thing that's been missing in you."

"No, no, no.... aaaaaah.... aaaaaaaaah... aaaaaaaaaah...."

Hikone looked like he was about to cry, as he tried to cast aside Hisagi's words. He kept screaming and repeatedly hacked off Hisagi's body as if in a blind rage.

However, every time Hisagi endured the pain, he kept pointing the tip of his blade at Hikone's vital points; throat, heart, eyes; countless number of times. This was repeated over and over again.

     pages 345 - 365 

- The fight is over. Hikone and Hisagi are almost out of Reiatsu.

- Hisagi thinks about words Tosen once thought him: This world is not a kind place. And yet, you have to keep on living in this unkind world." Hisagi then adds an addendum to that: "And that's exactly why you should be as kind as possible to the people around you. Come, let's do it together."

- Hisagi tells Kyoraku that he is going to end his Bankai and wants Kyoraku to not injure/kill Hikone. Shunsui jokes that he isn't that heartless but Hisagi remains firm and Kyoraku relents.

- Hisagi ends his Bankai but in that same moment, Ikomikidomoe shines. It springs out of the Zanpakto and attacks Hikone, trying to devour it. But Aura is able to protect him with her body. Ikomikodmoe had devoured a piece of the Soul King from Hikone. That piece gave Ikomikidomoe immense power and broke Ichibee's Bankai curse. The Zanpakto got his true name back.

- It seems Ichibee's name curse can be broken if the nameless person gets a large enough power boost.

- Ikomikidomoe is going to reveal his true name but Kenpachi kills him before that.

- Yukio and Urahara open up a large Garganta that leads to a digital dimension. Aura uses her remaining strength to dump the falling castle to the digital dimension. She says a few last words to Hisagi and Hikone and then dies from her wounds.

- Meanwhile Tokinada escaped and is in his home. He plans to heal his wounds and bide his time until one day he will strike again. For him the entire affair was just a novel experience. But then Mayuri appears. Mayuri was curious about Tsunayashiro's experiments to create new Soul Kings. He then calls Tokinada an amateur. Mayuri says, Tokinada should have entrusted him with the experiments and the result would have become much better, than what Hikone ended up as. Tokinada agrees with that, but he thought that would be boring and wouldn't satisfy Tokinada's wish to for. entertainment, chaos, mayhem and to laugh at Soul Society. Tokinada finds it funny that Mayuri believe Hikone was created for any great cause and laughs.

- As Tokinada tells Mayuri: "There is no purpose behind the creation of the Rei-o other than pleasure. If you look at all the information present in our secret archive, I wonder if you would understand how sinful the Soul Society is? This world is shaped entirely by betrayal and malice. This is a world where the descendants of the sinners are just as wretched, reaping the benefits from their ancestors. There is no need for a great cause in this disgusting world. This world decays in pleasure and drowns in sinful lust!"

- Mayuri disagrees and believes that refusing to change because of past sins is just laziness. Tokinada stated that Mayuri and Urahara are not different from him and that all three of them trample on other people's lives for the sake of lust (lust of knowledge in Mayuri's and Urahara's case).

- Tokinada asks what Mayuri wants to do now. Mayuri tells him, he just wanted to observe the end of Tokinada's experiment. He is about to leave when he turns back and tells Tokinada, that he should have closed the door. Tokinada didn't get what Mayuri meant, when a sword ran through his body. The owner was a young girl in assassin clothes.

- The identity of the girl is unknown but she is the child of either the other clan members or the assassins Tokinada sent to kill himself and the rest of the Tsunayashiro. What is clear that this girl doesn't even know how to properly hold a sword, let alone take a live. Tokinada can't believe that he got killed because of something so trivial like the death of some parents, which makes the girl even more furious. But as she realizes that Tokinada is really about to die (and also that Tokinada really goes off his rockers) she becomes horrified and scared. If Tokinada wanted, he could have killed the girl, but he did not want to. He instead chose to laugh, as his last action.

     pages 366- 370 
“Hahahahahaha! Hahahahahahahahahaha! I see... I am... I am going to die! Here, in this way! Killed, not by Tosen, who bore such a powerful and long-standing grudge towards me, but because of the petty vengeance of some small fry, and by a kid, too, no less! So this is how retribution finally catches up to the Soul Society’s Great House of Tsunayashiro, and I get to witness karmic retribution in action at close quarters as my life draws to an end! Hahahahahaha!”

“Uu...ah...”

The assassin continued to whimper as Tokinada kept on laughing in disdain; coughing up more and more blood.

“....”

Mayuri looked up from his book silently as he listened to Tsunayashiro Tokinada’s final words.

“Serves you right, serves you right.... Kyoraku Shunsui!”

The Head of the leading family amongst the Four Great Noble Houses, who was pouring out his life into oblivion, kept on laughing scornfully at the people he had known in his life, while he convulsively spluttered out blood.

“My life is ending here, Kyoraku! You couldn’t reach me! Sorry to burst your bubble, but this nameless little girl got to me first! You lost the chance to arrest me, Kyoraku! Such a shame, isn’t it? You didn’t even get to put me on trial in the end!”

Although his face was losing its colour from the constant loss of blood, his voice was full of vitality. Although, he should have lost his ability to speak because of his extreme degree of pain, Tokinada went on yelling loudly and mirthfully, addressing people who were not even present there, his eyes focussed far away, as if he could see each of those people standing there, invisible, in the room.

“Well, Tosen! Does this frustrate you? That I am dying without even an ounce of regret over what I did to you? Well, Hisagi Shuhei! Are you furious at me after hearing what I just said? And what about you, Ginjo? And Aura? Did Hikone already kill you? Even if you did survive somehow, you can’t touch my soul! Not one of you can!”

“.....”

The assassin stood frozen to the spot, unable to understand what Tokinada was shouting about. The girl watched, horrified, as Tokinada went on shrieking with laughter, dragging himself slowly towards a certain direction where no one was present-

“And what about you... Ukitake...? You always tried to find some good in me... didn’t you? But I will die here... without anything ever having changed.... within me...”

Spouting forth more blood than ever before, Tokinada stopped short and collapsed against the wall, as if he had broken down.

Who was it that he saw-

“Well... Kakyo...The stars... I will..."”

When Tokinada said that, his eyes became calm for a moment, with a glimpse of emotion in them, as if those words spelled his salvation. He distorted his lips to form a final smile, and then became still.

“Quite a child-like assassin...huh...”

After having glanced at the young assassin who would not stop trembling, Kurotsuchi Mayuri slowly walked away and left the Tsunayashiro estate.

“I see. So it was the karma of the Soul Society that brought about his death. That would have been enough to satisfy him, I suppose.”

It would have been possible for Mayuri to re-animate Tokinada like he did with his own corpse unit and with Kira Izuru, but he did not even try it. It was impossible to tell whether it was because that action would not have been favourable to Mayuri, or whether it was because Mayuri felt some sort of emotion for Tokinada.

Mayuri did not look back at Tokinada’s dead body; he ignored the assassin who had just killed the Head of the House of Tsunayashiro; he simply left the spot where ‘everything and everyone of interest’ no longer held any value. After a while, the girl, too, ran away, frightened. What remained was a mangled corpse in a blood-splattered room.

In the end, Tsunayashiro Tokinada ended his life without bequeathing a single word to Hikone until the last moment. Whether Tokinada had intended to, or whether he had really forgotten... that remained unknown.

As Head of the leading family of the Great Nobles, it was very discourteous of him.

But despite all that, Hikone’s soul did persist within Tokinada, till the very end.

Pages 371 to 375 is the stuff about Tosen and Aizen. Bleach Brave Souls have btw revealed that Nel's aspect of death is Lamentation. It also revealed her and Grimmjow's transcendence forms plus the beginning of an original story line featuring Tokinada's group and the ten Espada, writting by Narita. It also showed Oetsu in anime format. Here is a promo for Grimmjow's and Nel's new forms and Hikone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgknL05zWjQ

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#85814: Apr 30th 2019 at 8:07:51 AM

Remember when Aizen pointlessly and sadistically had Hitsugaya stab Momo?

Watch Narita reveal that was somehow for the benefit of the world or some bullshit.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#85815: Apr 30th 2019 at 8:59:24 AM

It was the only way to deactivate the bomb

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#85816: Apr 30th 2019 at 9:37:01 AM

If Narita really is going off Kubo's notes for these novels, then Kubo intended the antagonists to be a lot more sympathetic, and Soul Society a lot less, than they ended up being... which really makes me wonder how the series would've gone if the Captains hadn't become the most popular characters.

doineedaname from Eastern US Since: Nov, 2010
#85817: Apr 30th 2019 at 9:41:32 AM

There's still a lot of questionable bits in the manga for the Soul Society to begin with. Remember for the Shinigami retirement is a fiction with them in reality being locked away in the Maggot's Nest as a threat?

Edited by doineedaname on Apr 30th 2019 at 12:42:07 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#85818: Apr 30th 2019 at 11:00:36 AM

That still doesn't require turning every other bad guy in the manga into this misunderstood warrior for justice in ways that make zero sense with their onscreen portrayals.

Saiga (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#85819: Apr 30th 2019 at 1:43:34 PM

I think you're overreacting at the Aizen-Tousen thing. It doesn't mean Aizen is supposed to be innocent or whatever, but I like the idea of Aizen considering Tousen a friend and being a bit more than just using everyone around him.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: Aug, 2015
The Head of the Hydra
#85820: Apr 30th 2019 at 1:46:19 PM

It’s a rather sweet thing coming from what is practically a monstrous sociopath who treats everyone like garbage.

Proof that Aizen does have a heart, no matter how minuscule.

Edited by slimcoder on Apr 30th 2019 at 1:46:43 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#85821: Apr 30th 2019 at 1:47:50 PM

Did you mean a The Heart?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
bandersnitch Since: Aug, 2016
#85822: Apr 30th 2019 at 1:49:02 PM

I don't think the novels portray any of the antagonists in a new light. Everything revealed about them so far is consistent with the manga portrayal and has been alluded before. The novels only add an extra layer or go into further detail. For example, we already knew that Aizen was genuinely disgusted by the existence of the Soul King and that he wanted to change the system, even if his idea of change was just him ruling over the world. The novels only go into further detail for why he hates the lynchpin, which was technically already revealed in the manga.

Really the only new thing was that at least one of the relationships Aizen had, was not fake. That shows even Aizen is not completely devoid of empathy. Doesn't mean he is going to get any awards any time soon. His last sentence was him anticipating to cross paths with the guy who inherited Tosen's ideals and killing him.

I think Hisagi summoned it up the best when he stated that "Just because Tosen was right, doesn't mean he was correct".

Edited by bandersnitch on Apr 30th 2019 at 1:58:52 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#85823: Apr 30th 2019 at 2:16:51 PM

When I think of a Benevolent Boss who's good to subordinates, the guy who:

A) Gloated how he used his subordinates as pawns when cutting down the final Arrancar B) stood by as one Arrancar blasted another into paste, C) flat out attempted to murder another

Is not the one who comes to mind. Aizen never showcased one single positive trait throughout the entirety of his tenure as a villain and a lot of sadism and cruelty, while giving not one single fuck about a single subordinate in any sense. This "Oh, no, Aizen wasn't SO bad" is just insulting.

It's taking a moment that was blatant petty cruelty from Aizen with trademark smirk and switching it with "no, no, not really."

Edited by Lightysnake on Apr 30th 2019 at 2:19:47 AM

Saiga (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#85824: Apr 30th 2019 at 2:24:17 PM

Who here called him a benevolent boss?

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#85825: Apr 30th 2019 at 2:25:46 PM

Giving Aizen one person he sort of cared about doesn't mean he wasn't a monster to everyone else.


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