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Yes, the Shinigami perception of divinity defines the anti-god sword. But, like the Arrancar strongly imply on a couple of occasions, they have issues with the concept and naming of 'gods' giving that they gave themselves the name 'Shinigami'.
When we eventually learn that Ichibe'e was responsible for naming the things of Soul Society, I'm guessing that means he's the one who called the Shinigami that.
The key plot point is obviously what the Soul King is — what he was before he became the Soul King, what the Shinigami did to him, and what he is now. But one thing we do know from the manga, never mind the novels, is that we cannot trust the naming and identification of 'gods' and the true nature of deity is repeatedly prone to in-universe misunderstanding. It's a running theme throughout the entire story among protagonists and villains alike. It's a deadly serious and dangerous thing, and to do such a thing has been consistently shown to be problematic, deceptive and somehow the key to the entire story.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Aug 3rd 2018 at 10:59:45 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Kubo still felt to point out that Aizen truly became a god with those last transformations and that he was neither Shinigami, nor Hollow.
Well the other possibility is, that the Soul King is actually a giant. Ymir to be exact. Since the same thing happened to the two. It was pointed out that the Soul King may be a giant, when the Shinigami saw Pernida. Even before it grew, the hand was not hand sized. There are actually quite a few allusions to the Aesir and nordic mythology with the Quincy. And I'm not talking about Gerard.
Serial Procrastinator
x4
Ideally the tetragrammation is not supposed to be said, especially not in vain.
Not in the manga. In the manga, the Royal Guard made it clear that Aizen hadn't even made it to a level that would allow him to invade the Royal Realm, never mind achieving the level of the Soul King.
If the novels are claiming that, then we've got a potential plot hole on our hands.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
That's not necessarily the case. They mentioned Aizen didn't become an Ouken. That may not be the same as becoming divine. He also lost his divinity after the Hogyoku rejected him. The novels didn't claim that. The Unmasked data book said that Aizen's final form was unrelated to Shinigami and Hollow, but the appearance of a god.
The second part of the chapter has been translated. As always, there may be mistakes. Btw, can Ulquiorra's transcendent form be troped under his normal page?
- Yukio is Urahara's business "rival". In the entertainment business to specific.
- Hisagi needs to control his hormones. It's not good if he gets easily flustered by every good looking woman. Especially when they are the enemy.
- According to Hisagi, being with Pepe is deeply unpleasant. This is like the fifth time, that Pepe was put into a bad light. It seems that Narita and Kubo don't like Pepe that much. Well, it's not like Pepe was supposed to be liked in the first place.
- The leader of the new Xcution end-time suicide sect Michibane Aura is indeed a Fullbringer and was the one, who transported Karakura town away. She is working with Tokinada and now they are attacking the Urahara shop. Tessai and the kids are currently shopping for supplies. So only Hisagi and Urahara are there. Yukio is only virtually present it seeems.
- It's implied that Michibane Aura was part of the original Xcution group. The one when Ginjou was still a Shinigami. It's unknown how she survived, since Ginjou was supposed to be the only survivor. Either way, she hates the Shinigami for that. Though there is another reason for her dislike. She believes Shinigami are worthless, because they have forsaken humanity and are misusing the Soul King. Though that dislike is only for Shinigami in general, she can be rather amicable with individual Shinigami. It seems that Aura is connected to the 1000 year long secrecy concerning the Fullbringer.
- Benihime is not meant for offense. It is strictly meant for support. As such Urahara lets Hisagi fight. What makes Urahara so dangerous is his intellect, his shrewdness and that he is quite talented in Kido and Hakuda.
- Yukio and the other Fullbringer all know about Ginjou's past.
- It's implied that Michibane Aura was the one who defeated all the Zanpakto spirits in Nimaya's palace.
- Michibane Aura is a Femme Fatale kind of person. She certainly has an alluring and charming aura to her.
- The mooks of her sect are wearing black suits and black-and-white gas masks. Imagine if the Soldat were wearing business suits instead of military uniforms.
- Her abilities are weird. Even though she is a Fullbringer, according to Urahara, her Fullbring possesses no specific ability. Several abilities seem to be based on those of other character. So far she has potentially revealed the following abilities:
- She knows about Hisagi's battle with Findorr and that he used to say Exacta. She also somehow knows that Hisagi is a journalist, but it doesn't seem like she was spying. She was surprised that such a thing existed in Soul Society, as if she just had read his mind or past.
- She can turn invisible.
- By praying to the Soul King, she can transform metal batons into a Cthulhu-esque tentacle monster. That monster has some kind of weird magic spell written on it. Like a hydra the tentacles grow anew when cut. Touching the tentacle monster increases the weight of that object.
- According to the ramblings of her followers, she may be able to perform miracles and see the future.
- If she really attacked the Soul Palace, then she can tear through objects with her teeth, poison people, freeze them, burn them, electrocute them, crush someone's limb like with a blunt instrument or riddle someone with holes.
- It's possible that she is able to control her followers and the monster with her hands, like a conductor.
- The plan of Michibane Aura and Tokinada is to transform Karakura town into a capital befitting for the Soul King. Aura explicitly said that this plan will not require the sacrifice of innocent lives. Her reasoning is, that the Soul King is supposed to rule over Hueco Mundo, the world of the living and Soul Society. As such, it doesn't make sense why he should be imprisoned by the Shinigami in the Soul Palace. They want to transform Hikone into a free Soul King who will rule over all domains equally. At least that is Aura's version. Yukio's company is very important for that plan.
- Aura mentioned that they don't need an Ouken.
- One interesting tidbit, despite knowing that he is dead, Hisagi considered it a real possibility that Yhwach could've been behind Aura and the one who was going to be king of all worlds. But then he realized that it probably were Tokinada and Hikone.
- It is unknown how Yhwach will factor into this, but Tokinada will probably trying to get rid of the current lynchpin. It would be ironic if it turns out, that Hisagi and co have to "protect" Yhwach. Since almost everyone is heading towards the fight of Mayuri's zombies and the Fullbringer, it seems that the Fullbringer, the Sternritter, the Espada and Hisagi and Shunsui are going to band together to prevail Tokinada's plot. Tokinada did mention that soon everyone will find out anyway. Though something might happen to Nel, the zombie squad, Shinji, Liltotto, Tsukishima and Giriko. The advertisement for the novels focused on Hisagi, Shunsui, Ginjou, Grimmjow, Harribel, Giselle and Bambietta. So it may be just them who will act as the true allstars.
Edited by bandersnitch on Aug 4th 2018 at 10:53:13 AM
Well, it was obvious (even in the manga) that Aizen's form seemed to have a connection to Quincy Vollstandig forms towards the end. However, appearance and actual are very different things.
Edited:
Wait... what do you mean by Ulquiorra's transcendent form? Are you talking about the Bleach Brave Souls form that was designed by Kubo just for the game's special anniversary? If so, no, a game shouldn't be troped like it's the mainstream story. That game did a lot of adaptations of the actual story just to turn it into a playable game. When you've got Orihime able to fight as some kind of Zombie bride power-speed queen with a giant hammer that can blast everything in an area effect to smithereens with a Hallowe'en pumpkin heads attack, I'm going to go with 'no'.
Keep what's in the game to the game. Kubo designing some of the game forms would just be Trivia.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Aug 4th 2018 at 8:01:11 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Listen never understimate the potential canoncity of something completely absurd in a cell phone game in Japan. FGO literally treats all of its Gag events as canon and they even show up to help everyone save the day near the end of its first part.
Granblue Fantady does the same for all its Crossover events even ones that don't make sense like Idolmaster girls having magical powers and wielding weapons. Or their male counterparts in Side M in their own event.
Edited by OmegaRadiance on Aug 5th 2018 at 5:14:22 AM
Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
Question: do Byakuya's Zanpakuto powers count as Extra-ore-dinary? They are a form of manipulating metal into various shapes.
Edited by windleopard on Aug 5th 2018 at 7:29:32 AM
Ah! So there is a trope for this!
Given that the Chinese Five Elements include 'Metal', I've always thought of Byakuya's ability as being Elemental Powers - Metal.
Judging by the trope description, there may be an issue of scope. If he applies, Byakuya would classify as a 'narrowly defined' example, as it's limited to his Zanpakuto rather than metals in general. However, the flexibility of what he can do with his blade as a result of the power does fit in with the trope description.
I lean towards a 'yes' for Extra-ore-dinary, but the scope is going to be the big question mark.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
'Sup?
Extra-ore-dinary would imply that he creates and controls metal like Toshiro’s ice or Yamamoto’s fire.
¿?¡!
Yeah I would say he doesn't count.
Serial Procrastinator
Since it's only his sword I would say it's more Flying Weapon + Storm of Blades. (or Fletchette Storm for his flower petals).
Out of interest though, if Byakuya is the metal of the Wu Xing who fill the other four spots? (Though I think I can guess fire...)
Edited by Sigilbreaker26 on Aug 7th 2018 at 1:08:03 PM
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Toshiro would be water. His ice powers lean a bit more towards water effects.
As for Byakuya, I should also point out that the trope includes Colossus from X-Men who merely has the ability to turn his skin into metal. And Byakuya's shikai is stated to revolve around manipulating particles of his sword.
Edited by windleopard on Aug 7th 2018 at 10:32:46 AM
He's explicitly water and ice.
If we cover both the captains and lieutenants (including the proxy lieutenants: Ikkaku, Yumichika, Kiyone and Sentaro), I'd say the following:
- Wood - Ikkaku (his Shikai is entirely wood-based)
- Fire - Yamamoto
- Earth - Matsumoto (ash)
- Metal - Byakuya
- Water - Hitsugaya
Looking at the specifics of each element, rather than Elemental Powers, it's interesting that Hitsugaya is a better match for Wood than Water. We'd possibly be looking at something like:
- Wood - Hitsugaya (Kyoraku, too, although for different reasons)
- Fire - Aizen
- Earth - Komamura
- Metal - Yamamoto
- Water - Ukitake
Edited by Wyldchyld on Aug 8th 2018 at 10:19:40 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
Been a long time since I was seriously in the Bleach thread, but I'm back because of this video:
...Sounds about right?
One Strip! One Strip!
Interesting. Why earth for Rangiku? And how does Hitsugaya fit wood instead of water?
I think I've seen that video before. I think it has a point.
Edited by windleopard on Aug 9th 2018 at 10:42:19 AM
Don't just drop videos and say 'discuss!'
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
Yeah. I guess I should have explained it a bit better. Sorry about that.
One Strip! One Strip!
So does Chojiro count as having been fridged, or does that trope only apply when the character is female?
Mistakes Were Made
It can apply to males too.
‘My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’
Do a barrel roll!
Well, we're obviously just talking in fortune cookies here, so:
In the creation cycle, fire creates earth by forming ash. Matsumoto's zanpakuto breaks down into ash for Shikai. Her zanpakuto's name means 'ash cat'.
Hitsugaya: In the creation cycle, water begets wood by providing the nourishment from which it feeds. Wood is the Spring, the beginning, energy and growth. Its flexible, resilient and full of youthful vigor and its symbol is the Azure/Green Dragon. However, it can be vulnerable to anger.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Aug 9th 2018 at 2:35:03 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Regarding the video, if that were the case, then wouldn't the Fullbring arc have been better received? Since Ginjou and Tsukishima screwing with Ichigo's mind and bookmarking everyone, made it very personal. The entire arc was basically Ichigo struggling with his personal problems.
And while he said that the Arrancar Saga failed because it was just a rehash, he kinda ignores that the Hueco Mundo Saga was the peak of Bleach's popularity. Its climax, the fight with Ulquiorra and his last moment are according to polls still seen as the best moment in the entire series.
The final arc was also rather personal, since Yhwach was the murderer of Ichigo's mother and a dark mirror of Zangetsu and Isshin. The personal arcs of the captains, Nemu and Ichigo's group (minus Chad) were also resolved. And of course the misconception that Bleach was cancelled.
Edited by bandersnitch on Aug 9th 2018 at 8:51:05 AM
Miracle baby Yhwach probably didn't get the memo, since he was deaf not long before he renamed himself Yhwach.
Though wasn't there a scene where Ichibee mocked Yhwach and said something like "It's not like the name Yhwach had any meaning to begin with."