Final Fantasy general

White Mage with Curaga and Holy pwns everything in that dungeon!

Hi I'm Jman7 and I am new here and about the discuusion about dissidia Final Fantasy isn't it non-canon? So it useless arguing about when they were pulled in, because it has nothing to do with the main games.

It may be non-canon, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't try to respect the canon it's drawing from. Since it's part of the game's premise that these characters are being pulled into the war from their own universes, it would make sense for the writers to think about what incarnation of the character they're using and what they've been pulled away from.

Actually, there is a fair bit of stuff in the game to point to it as canon. First of all, it was already established that the Rift connects different worlds, and even different games. Plus, Gilgamesh's travels establish a sort of multiversal connection through the Rift, as seen in VIII, IX, and IV, the After Years. Especially The After years, actually. The final areas of the final dungeon shed some interesting light on the plausibility of Dissidia.

The premise's use of amnesia and time weirdness cleanly gives us a reason it can fit with the previously established games without upssetting them. If the heroes can be taken and returned at about the same time, or just taken in spirit for a time, then it doesn't have to upset the progression of the original games.

And it also seems to be doing a lot to try to give the world of Final Fantasy I some backstory and chracter beyond what it originally had. And make Cid of the Lufaine into something other than a faceless Cid added in the remakes.

edited 11th Jul '12 5:05:34 PM by Enlong

Dissidia isn't exactly non-canon.

It has it's own canon, draws from the canon of other games, but mostly relates to the canon of the first game and V.

What with the Interdimensional Rift, Shinryu, Cid of the Lufaine, Chaos, Garland, and the Warrior of Light. All of whom are the main characters, and whom the story is focused on.

As far as the canon of other games is concerned, it references them plenty of times, and it doesn't contradict them in any way.

After the end of the war, the warriors, like Cloud and Tifa for instance, probably brushed it off as a weird dream.

...With the exception of the warriors who were summoned after they died in their own worlds. Like most of the villains. The Emperor for instance.

They probably just went back to their respective afterlives.

edited 11th Jul '12 5:27:37 PM by unnoun

Squall woke up and said "Dammit. I have the WEIRDEST dreams. At least I wasn't a moron again..."

I like to imagine that Cecil was sent to Dissidia while he was in a coma in the After Years.

Garland seems to have come from after he became Chaos, but before he transformed in front of the Light Warriors.
The Emperor was called after he took over Hell
Cloud of Darkness... it doesn't really matter when she was taken. She doesn't change at all, just returns to the Void
Golbez was probably taken during his first round of cryo-sleep
Exdeath is Neo Exdeath shoved into an Exdeath shaped can again
Kefka was after the apocalypse
and I don't know enough about the others.

Sephiroth is after Advent Children, from all indication. There are references to AC in-game, not to mention Cloud having Omnislash V5.

Ultimecia is a static character, so it doesn't matter.

Kuja is likely from before his death in IX, considering how he tries to help Zidane in Duodecim.

Jecht is from after the events of X.

If there is another Dissidia, I'd kinda like to see cutscenes based on the reports of Cid's family.

Like, I'd like to play as Chaos during the fight against Omega and the Summons.

I'd kinda like to see the burning villages, to emphasize just how potentially dangerous Chaos is.

I kinda want to see Cid's prison break, and how his wife got shot.

I kinda want to see her reaching her village, as it lifts into the air, and when she transfered her memories.

...And I want to see the scene where Garland shows up and meets Cid, Cosmos, Chaos, and Shinryu.

I actually want to see the deal that started the war.

Yuna seems to be from before the perfect ending of X-2.

Or possibly before X-2 period.

Definitely after X though.

edited 11th Jul '12 5:45:43 PM by unnoun

So, my question here is this: is Dissidia's Chaos supposed to still be Garland, or is it just a Manikin, unrelated to FFI's Chaos? Was Garland ever the child mentioned in the reports, who was bred for war by Onrac? Or am I mistaken about all that? If so, where did Garland come from?

edited 11th Jul '12 5:48:05 PM by Enlong

I'd say that Yuna was from the period before X-2. Likely before that guy (Yiebel, I think his name was) came to recruit her for the Youth League and Rikku showed her the Sphere of Shuyin.

Based on the "You are me, and I am you" deal, I'd say that Garland and Chaos are somehow related.

The deal with Final Fantasy I was, that everything was a time loop. But somehow, the Warriors of Light defied fate, broke time, and escaped the time loop.

1: Garland arrives in the past.

2: Garland sends Four Fiends into the future.

3: The Warriors of Light arrive in the past.

4: Garland becomes Chaos, and kills the Warriors of Light.

5: Garland starts losing memories over the next 2000 years.

6: The Four Fiends fuck shit up.

7: Garland has forgotten everything, and becomes a knight of Cornelia.

8: Garland kidnaps Princess Sara and takes her into the Chaos Shrine.

9: Warriors of Light kill Garland.

10: Garland is sent back into the past.

11: Dissidia happens.

1: Garland arrives in the past.

Somehow, in the first game, the Warriors of Light broke the time loop, which means that none of their adventures ever happened. The Four Fiends never became a problem, Garland never turned evil, and their adventure was nothing more than a myth.

The Final Fantasy.

edited 11th Jul '12 6:01:24 PM by unnoun

You think that Chaos became Garland again and started losing his memories over the years? Huh. I wouldn't have thought of that. However, I had been wondering where Chaos went after the 2000 years ago.

Garland/Chaos says "2000 years from now I will have forgotten all of this" or something to that effect in the scene before the final boss fight.

Garland/Chaos in the past, 2000 years before the rest of the first game is the only point in time that Garland remembers the entire time loop.

Killing and being killed for an eternity doesn't sound very nice to me.

...Trying to figure out Chaos and Garland makes my head hurt.

Hell, it was confusing in the first game.

edited 11th Jul '12 6:14:58 PM by unnoun

I believe the words were "In 2000 years, I will remember none of this".

I thought he meant the original, Princess-stealing Garland didn't "remember" any of this, because it hadn't happened to him yet. I just assumed a bit of Time-Travel Tense Trouble.

...But that seems really obvious. Obviously you can't remember something you haven't done yet, short of prophetic ability.

Chaos also says that

The point of the time loop was that Chaos/Garland would never die. He would always be sent back into the past, over and over, so he could spend an eternity killing the Light Warriors, over and over and over again.

And somehow, in the last version of the loop, they won.

edited 11th Jul '12 6:39:20 PM by unnoun

I just found an old parody of the Duodecim script I did a while back! Feel free to read it, if you want.

edited 11th Jul '12 6:49:33 PM by Hobgoblin

HI HOB!

Hi, Xiph~

I will admit, I never even imagined that was his the loop could work. His revenge seems even more horrifying, now. So, how does he lose his memories?

Time. Senility.

Gradually, without exercise or anyone to talk to, or anyone to fight, his physical and mental abilities would fade from lack of use.

Leaving him as someone with nowhere left to go, until he proves himself as someone strong enough to join the king's army.

Does anyone know when this month Final Fantasy Dimensions comes out? All I can find for a release date is "July 2012."

Sorry I Just don't like the concept of dissdia it bugs me that the characters are randomly brought into the conflict and have they memories erased and used as pawns. Also isn't the cloud of Darkness a force of nature that could destroy all of existence in FFIII? So how come it is under Chaos's Control when could be obliterating everything. Also Didn't some of the Staff of Dissidia Say the game's purpose was to appease the Fanbase? So it's more of Fanservice. That's why I don't see it as canon.

Just because it's fanservice doesn't make it non-canon.

It doesn't have much effect on the canon of the other games in any case. It only really effects the canon of I and V.

As for the Cloud of Darkness thing, it seems like the Warriors in Dissidia aren't the real bodies.

In the Reports in Duodecim, it mentions that at the beginning of the war, Cosmos summoned memories. And that Chaos followed suit.

After her latest failed attempt at destroying the world of III, her mind could have been drifting through the Rift and collected by Chaos.

Her mind might be a world destroying force of nature, but that doesn't mean her body is.

...Chaos doesn't really "control" his Warriors in any case. Neither does Cosmos for that matter.

The Cloud didn't even really care about the war in the twelfth cycle anyway.

She was trying to obliterate everything throughout the thirteenth cycle.

The memory loss is part of the point of the whole thing. The fact that they lose memories and won't remember or won't care about the war afterwards is the only reason that Dissidia can be canon, because it won't affect anything to much anyway.

At the least, I think Dissidia should be canon because of the way it builds on a backstory for the world of Final Fantasy I.

edited 12th Jul '12 10:02:18 AM by unnoun

Dissidia is easy enough to ignore if you don't like it. I do it successfully every day.

I could use some FF fan opinions over on the Official Couple discussion page, if you've got the time. We've got a dedicated group of Cloud/Aeris shippers who are invading the site, and I am extremely reluctant to take such an obviously biased group's word for anything. Fans who are not shippers would be preferred, but I'd trust any of you guys over a 1-day-old sock with an agenda any day of the week.

edited 12th Jul '12 10:11:01 AM by ccoa