Final Fantasy general

I agree.

We've all accepted Aerith's death. It happened. It would do way too much damage to the game if she didn't die, or came back.

Aerith died. Cloud and Tifa are the Official Couple. It's time to let go of these two-decade-old grudges and move on.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 28th 2020 at 11:07:00 AM

... Guys it be hypothetical DLC for people who want their "Happy" ending

...

I still think they shouldn't do it.

Just having her come back in anything could be seen as cheapening her death, even if it's some post game ooooh! I'm a ghost type shit.

That is, admittedly not to say it couldn't be done well, but in this case, execution might not matter as much as the mere action.

The fact that this remake exists at all is because people want it, not because it "needs" to, so I could see them do it.

There is no way it wouldn't come across and pandering and wish fulfillment, but I guess it doesn't really matter if it is just non-canon DLC.

I say don't revive Aerith because it's one of the most iconic moments and to change it would drastically alter the plot.

Y'know. I wonder if anyone can help me on this one, I'm trying to find an old interview/article

I distinctly remember reading years ago, that Aerith didn't need to die to use holy and that was actually the point. The holy materia was already glowing by the point she died, which meant the spell was already active, the only reason that it hadn't fired off yet was because Sephiroth was actively blocking it, which is why the party needed to kill him.

The idea was that Aerith's death wasn't some heroic sacrifice, it was a tragedy. In fact, I remember the developers specifically stating they wanted to avoid Aerith's death being seen as heroic/necessary because they were trying to subvert the whole "glorious death" thing that's so abundant in fantasy.

It's not just iconic, it's part of the point. It would be like making an alternate universe where Cloud has really alwasy been the badass Soldier he wanted to become, or one where you find out the Shinra isn't so bad and ally with Rufus. They would barely work as parody.

@Phoenix: I can't link the source, but I've read that too.

Edited by Cozzer on Mar 28th 2020 at 5:43:04 PM

You can raise her back to life but she's constantly reliving her death until she dies again

Yep. I played through the game for the first time recently and this is exactly how it is portrayed in-game.

Edited by Moth13 on Mar 28th 2020 at 1:01:23 PM

To clarify. I'm not saying Aerith's death was pointless from a narrative standpoint, but an in-universe one.

If I remember rightly, the writers were a bit put-off by how a lot of fantasy fiction depicts death as great and glorious, with heroic last stands, and sacrifices that turn the tide of a losing battle. They wanted to show that no, death isn't glorious and heroic, it's a sad thing that leaves the survivors devastated and heartbroken.

Party members have died in previous Final Fantasy games, but it was always some epic scene and you got a replacement character to fill their slot soon after. However, Aerith's slot remains empty with no replacement to emphasis the fact that she is gone, death is final and leaves a hole.

Having her death be necessary for Holy to work would've run counter to the actual point.

There was a Polygon retrospective where I believe Sakaguchi said "If you're making a game about the value and meaning of life, it isn't enough to just show life, you need to show death as well".

I kinda hope they leave Aerith dead. I mean, usually it's always older men party members who bites the dust for realsies in FF games. Let the pretty young girls have a shot too!

I do wonder if they'll remake crisis core too? Have Zack and Aerith reunite in death or something. Something to fuel the ship wars.

I wouldn't mind DLC on some Turks side story.

They might port Crisis Core someday since they've yet to do that but that's about it.

In another interview Sakaguchi mentioned that they'd planned to kill off one of the 3 originally conceived characters for the game: Cloud, Aerith, and Barret.

Cloud was the hero so that wouldn't work, and Barret would of been too obvious, so they went with Aerith instead. I think people would probably remember Barret a bit more fondly if he was the one chosen, though Aerith might not of been the single most popular FF heroine otherwise, too.

Edited by Hashil on Mar 28th 2020 at 11:13:16 AM

I can't remember where I read it, but there's a quote I want to paraphrase on this matter, "the central theme of [Final Fantasy VII] is life. You can't portray life properly without death."

Aerith dying is important. Not on a global scale, but the personal one. Part of living is seeing people, even people you care for, die. And then having to keep living after that.

Huh. I don't know, killing Cloud of might of worked.

The players certainly would've felt the loss of killing the hero mid-game, and having the rest of the party pick up the slack, especially if his death wasn't heroic or glorious. I can see why they didn't go for it, but I think it could have worked.

Edited by PhoenixAct on Mar 28th 2020 at 5:16:32 PM

Killing cloud would have been the ultimate "You have GOT to be kidding me" moment,like you don't just kill of main characters like that unless its for shock value alone

Yeah. What kind of crazy game would do that? Definitely not a Squeenix produced RPG released two years prior on the SNES.

To be fair, you can save Chrono in Chrono Trigger, but you don't have to. After he dies, you can just beat the game without him.

Chrono is a silent protag though, while Cloud actually has a personality.

Killing the hero makes for a memorable experience even if it isn't permanent. I mean I still remember Chrono's death in Chrono Trigger.

Edit: guess I'm not the only one.

Edited by Cosplaythief on Mar 28th 2020 at 1:20:37 PM

I mean, not really. Main characters shouldn't be immune to death if it has a narrative point, beyond just shock value.

Like I said, having Cloud die would've effectively communicated the permanence of death, and him having an actual personality would've heightened that feeling.

Edited by PhoenixAct on Mar 28th 2020 at 5:22:05 PM

Chrono being a silent protag makes his death just as impactful if the player projects himself into the character. Which is probably the main appeal of silent protags, non?

So it's like you died.

The idea that Aerith did not intend to die was something that was clarified to me when others pointed out her dialogue throughout the game:

She always talks about what they'll do once this is all over. She's looking forward to her future. That's not something you do when you're expecting to die.

Now, you could argue she expected to die when she went to the Temple of the Ancients alone (like she might have figured out Sephiroth would try to stop her) but even that doesn't seem like it was intended.

She never planned on dying. She planned on saving the day in one fell swoop.

Still, while the intention was to keep her death from looking glorious or like some necessary sacrifice, it wasn't totally pointless. Yes, she never had to die, but she did succeed in ensuring that Meteor would be stopped if it was summoned.

Huh. If Sephiroth had known Aerith had succeeded in summoning it, do you guys think he'd have still bothered with killing her? We see that her death doesn't prevent Holy from coming once she's done. He missed his window of opportunity to stop it (in fact, if he'd done it himself from the start instead of trying to force Cloud to do it, he'd have essentially won), but as we learn later on, he's able to simple prevent it from rising up afterwards.

I can totally picture him patting himself on the back in the Lifestream over shutting up that stupid ancient, only to sense Holy trying to rise up from the ground and realizing she still beat him, giving her a genuine complement (something like clever girl) and gaining a newfound respect for the one who at that point came closer to defeating him in death than anyone barring Cloud.

I don't know, I always thought Sephiroth was already too lost in his delusions and Jenova love to pay anyone any respect anymore.

I haven't replayed FF 7 since forever but I never had a high opinion of Sephiroth besides his looks and him kicking my ass in KH.