Editing Improvements & Changes

If it's not too big of an ask, that'd be nice.

Edit: Maybe list all the major options and "Other (please specify)"? Require at least one checked.

Edited by ANonagon9 on Jul 16th 2023 at 4:59:08 AM

I feel like there should be one for 'the trope use is right but this is getting the information from the work wrong', but that's not really pithy. Also might fall under misuse or work content, but those seem a bit off if the result is a straight deletion.

A checkbox setup for the canned reasons would be good if feasible.

Hmmm...maybe "incorrect information" or something like that?

Nevermind, I see the spelling/grammer fix is there. That will work.

Edited by BeerBaron on Jul 17th 2023 at 3:06:09 PM

Maybe for the stock edit reasons, we could have something along the lines of removing complaining/gushing/other policy violations not already listed? I recently had to shave down a lot of stuff for a YMMV page listed on Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining, and punching in "hedge trimming" or "removing complaining" every time felt kind of awkward after a while.

Edited by TrocyteV on Jul 17th 2023 at 12:31:28 PM

I don't know if it's been suggested yet, but a ZCE warning flag might be helpful when making an edit. I've frequently come across 'X is this', or 'X is this to Y' "examples" without any context whatsoever, when I'm adding examples to work pages and character sheets. So I end up having to add the missing context to the ones I'm familiar with and uncommenting out the rest.

Having a pop-up warning or something when someone tries adding another ZCE to the page, could hopefully be a deterrent.

I recall on Wishlist once asking for us to be able to edit our edit reasons. I think I suggested letting mods see the history of the edit reasons too like they can see the history of forum posts and Ask the Tropers posts to my knowledge. (I'm not 100% positive if admins can do that, for the record.) I'm fine if this doesn't get implemented, though, partly because I'm uncertain if it is possible to add that.

I also like the suggestion for the "WYSIWYG editor" plus the warning for Edit Wars and zero-context examples. I'm ok if neither get implemented, though. EDIT: Plus, per, they might be at least difficult to implement.

Edited by RandomTroper123 on Jul 17th 2023 at 2:29:53 AM

Anything that would require making the editing window actually comprehend what the change means (beyond just a few templates that would only cover very specific scenarios) would be a really big ask, from a coding perspective.

Edited by RainehDaze on Jul 17th 2023 at 10:24:51 AM

In that case, I'll continue to fill-in the necessary context whenever possible.

Edited by MiinU on Jul 17th 2023 at 3:08:25 AM

I mean, a new bullet with very few words after the trope/work name might warrant a pop-up, but itherwise, yeah, difficult to code.

Yeah, but then some basic tropes on e.g. character pages would keep getting popups or demand unnecessary Word Cruft to make it go away. So, potentially awkward.

A basic Edit War can just be detected by the same change being repeated, and extra sophistication doesn't need particular understanding—either the same person changing the same lines after another interveningg edit, and after that there's pretty simple ways to measure similarity. But... yeah, implementation stuff. That's kory's domain.

I really don't want edit reasons to be mandatory. The reason being that simply adding fresh examples doesn't even need edit reasons, and I don't want to type "Adding an example." everytime I add an example.

Edited by VintageEmma on Jul 17th 2023 at 11:04:53 AM

Vintage Emma,

the purpose of the checkbox system would be to simply click a reason(s) and then click save.

Edited by kory on Jul 17th 2023 at 7:12:20 AM

x2 Agreed. There's really no need for a mandatory edit reason. Plus it saves a lot of time unless you're making big edits, clearing up vandalism, misuse etc or removing delisted tropes like Nice Hat.

Edited by Mr-ex777 on Jul 18th 2023 at 12:38:56 AM

Mr-ex777,

Time isn’t really a factor anymore with the checkbox system since it’ll be a single click to pick a reason before saving.

NVM there is an adding example thing, but still. Plus misclicks and typos can occur especially on mobile.

Edited by Mr-ex777 on Jul 18th 2023 at 12:48:19 AM

Having to do that even for adding fresh examples is still cumbersome and unnecessary, and I think edit reasons should be enforced in situations that make sense, like cleanup, corrections, deletions, etc., not for simple everyday additions. Having no requirement for adding examples is already convenient enough as it is now.

having to click a checkbox that’s next to the save button isn’t cumbersome. What’s more frustrating, I’m sure, is that 90% of edits have no reason added and it’s not obvious in a lot of cases.

Edited by kory on Jul 17th 2023 at 10:05:42 AM

That is way too much of an overzealous solution. There's no point in requiring edit reasons for adding fresh examples, and the logic behind it is flawed and doesn't make sense. I don't want to be clicking the same edit reason prompt all the time when adding examples. I just want to save my edits without adding edit reasons and done. It's too convenient to just take away when it isn't broken to begin with.

Well if adding examples is the most common it could be set as a default? Either way edit reasons will need to be mandatory to some extent. Even if just for larger edits. But again, a button click is nothing to lose your cool over. It’s much better to the alternative of barley any edit reasons. Sometimes things change.

Edited by kory on Jul 17th 2023 at 10:29:44 AM

This won't be an issue if the edit reason box is kept blank by default as-now but a select menu allows to quickly insert common edit reasons to it. Whenever edit reasons should be mandatory in all cases, well now they're not, so this is a policy question for mods to comment on.

Well if most of the frustration from lack of edit reasons is for larger edits then i could make it so only edits of a certain size require a reason?

Edited by kory on Jul 17th 2023 at 11:25:21 AM

Should we have a check button for minor edits like The Other Wiki in case of tweaks, be it minor or serial?

To me, I don't put in edit reasons for very small edits like correcting a single typo/grammar error or adding in voice acting credits. For larger efforts like shuffling examples around or fixing indentation, I do put in an edit reason to explain what I did there. Because of this, I'm more keen to the idea of an edit reason being necessary for more large-scale edits, not for every edit, though there should be an agreement on what "large" means in this context.

Edited by Excessive-Menace on Jul 17th 2023 at 11:41:02 AM

I really don't see how requiring an edit reason is much of a burden when it's possible to literally checkbox "add trope" right next to the save button. Give a few goes around, it'll be automatic. And if you're that worried about fat-fingering a checkbox on mobile, then you really shouldn't be editing on mobile in the first place.

Plus short edits can be just as inscrutable and often don't have reasons anyway. "Because straight additions should be obvious" doesn't mean we should stop at optionally making it easier when people don't use them as is.