The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

I think one thing that might be getting lost in translation here is that pointing out that Walker's killing of Nico is really bad when applied as social commentary to police brutality doesn't mean that I'm defending Walker at all; rather I'm complaining that the narrative created a situation that at least provides a motive for his actions, which makes the comparison to real life cases of unwarranted use of lethal force almost offensive. By making the victim a member of a terrorist organization with a kill count to their name, including Walker's best friend just minutes before, it unintentionally sends the message that maybe victims of police brutality have genuinely done some really awful things, and maybe the police doing the brutalizing have just had a really bad day or something. Which obviously isn't what they were going for, but... it's still there.

On the topic of other Marvel characters, if Nico had been a character in a season of The Punisher who got offed by Frank while not a threat at that moment, the narrative would undeniably frame it in a much more 'He was a criminal who got what was coming to him' way. I don't have anything to say about that, just thought it was interesting.

I still want Power Broker to just be Zola. Show him in a post-credit scene just showing up in his robot body◊ and asking in a thick germanic swiss accent about this "new Captain America".

Ideally, I'd have Sharon just be part of the Flagsmashers and the season ends with her revealing this to Sam and trying to reform them to a more heroic tool of revolution. But that's expecting a lot from the MCU.

I mean, I feel there's a risk that the real life allegory is being taken too literally in some ways.

Yes there certainly are parallels to draw between Walker and some recent events. But it's not just about those parallels, it's also about the story and the characters in the context of the plot - Steven Rogers would not kill someone in Walker's place. We know this. We've seen it. Walker's fall from grace and his subsequent mental break serve to show him as a flawed and failed successor to Steve before and beyond any social commentary.

Once they were Flagsmashers, now they are Flag... dashers? flashers? I guess the name still needs work.

I still don’t see Sharron as the Power Broker, she seems to be aligned with the Flag Smashers and doesn’t seem to have a motive for making a super solider serum.

Flagslashers?

Sharon immediately realizes flags aren't smashed, they're burned. "Flagburners, yeah, that sounds better....I think."

In all seriousness, knowing Marvel's M.O, they'd probably just reuse some name that fits better. like Sharon rechristening the Flagsmashers as "The Liberators" (a unrelated group of evil foreigner avenger knockoffs in the Ultimate 'Verse, but their name rings well with the ideals) or "Nomads" (reverse-engineering the Nomad moniker to fit the entire organization as it was done with Flagsmasher).

EDIT: Actually, funny note on that: in the br portuguese translation the Flagsmashers are called "Apátridas" ("The Stateless"), given "Esmagadores de Bandeira" (Flagsmashers) is quite a mouthful.

Edited by Gaon on Apr 18th 2021 at 2:55:29 AM

Nomads would work thematically as well as they are rejecting the idea of boundaries between countries.

Huh speaking of those guys, the Colonial is one of the only people in the Ultimate-verse who reacted the same way to the serum as Steve did.

Edited by slimcoder on Apr 18th 2021 at 2:57:22 AM

There's a 616 version of the Liberators.

Tends to be an all woman team. Originally because feminism is a scary specter for Halloween. Later because all the other names are taken and She-Hulk wanted to international an incident.

See, my read is that Walker isn't meant to be a critique of American policing. We already have that with the literal cops in Episode 2. Rather, he's meant to critique the institutions he does actually represent: the US military and foreign policy. He wants to do the right thing, at heart. He believes in his values and strives to live up to the legacy of his Greatest Generation predecessor.

But he's also dangerously in love with his own legend; one that's propped up by a government-backed media campaign, no less. He can't tell where his mission ends and his own quest for fame and glory begins. So he starts to regard his methods as beyond reproach. He ditches the institutions meant to hold him accountable. He uses force to barge into situations where force could only make things worse; partly out of impatience and disrespect for the people involved, and partly because he's eager to show what he can do with his shiny new toy. He's dangerously ignorant of the human elements of his mission and the expertise needed to handle them. And while he's not outwardly racist, at least not in his 21st century incarnation, he's all too willing to use his privileged status to uphold systemic injustices.

And no, this doesn't negate my issue with the first episode going "rah rah Sam is working with the US Air Force again, how cool". But Walker's story has a lot in common with the various incidents of US and allied militaries (especially elite special forces units) doing extremely sketchy things abroad because they'd started to believe their own myth.

I'm with you there EOT 9.

I do think that an episode wherein Walker committed an extrajudicial murder happening to air at a time when those are in the news has started people seeing parallels that were never intended. Yes, Death of the Author is a thing but I think that there is a definite tendency to overanalyze here.

Walker as examination of military/political stuff works much better than him being a cop allegory.

Edited by jakobitis on Apr 18th 2021 at 11:14:36 AM

Arguably it's not that hard for the episode to air during a time when police brutality is a hot cultural topic because it keeps happening and staying in the conversation. Nor is it unlikely, with how ubiquitous it's become, that the episode would invoke some of the circumstances.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Apr 18th 2021 at 3:17:37 AM

Sure. But I don't think it was what the writers were specifically thinking about when they wrote it. There is an amount of applicability but that was not the intended read.

I don't think there's anything ambiguous about a white male American authority figure declaring himself the arbiter of justice and beating a defenseless and surrendering POC to death, resulting in a media spectacle that leads him to lose his job over the PR fallout but results in no serious consequences for him.

I think that's a pretty clear and obvious allegory.

I think it's more that there's some overlap between soldiers and police, from an allegory perspective.

Walker was in a foreign country committing a questionably-legal operation against POC criminals, when he inarguably went to far. This looks similar, but is still distinct, to a white cop beating up a POC American citizen.

Its just a bad one as the cop is avenging his dead POC cop friend. Which is insulting to the many RL victims as it equates them with cop killers and terrorists.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Apr 18th 2021 at 3:42:43 AM

precisely. Allegory is intentional, the symbolism and discussion is definitely there. It being taken to be about cops is the bit I'm saying was inadvertent.

Walker isn't meant to be symbolic of an American cop who killed an American citizen. He's an American soldier who went rogue and killed a foreign citizen (and this just after getting snotty with the Dora Milaje about "jurisdiction"). There's certainly some overlap but they are not the exact same thing.

Edited by jakobitis on Apr 18th 2021 at 11:46:14 AM

Sharon: "Wait, flags cannot be smashed, we need a new name... hmm, there was this one president with the idiotic idea of building a wall in the border... hmm wallsmashers..."

Sharon assistant: "Uhm ma'am? There's one Mr. Hulk on the phone talking about having a copyright to the word smash that wants to talk with you"

Karli joining AGENTS OF SMASH is something I approve of.

ed by jakobitis, but: My point is that the show isn't both-sidesing police brutality. Walker beating Nico to death has more in common with US military personnel murdering or otherwise abusing captured members of foreign militant groups, or the civilians who support them. That's a less morally black-and-white situation than, say, Derek Chauvin murdering George Floyd. But it's still wrong, and often reflects bigger problems in the way the US uses military force.

Edited by eagleoftheninth on Apr 18th 2021 at 3:46:33 AM

It's possible it could also be both.

Just like the GDR seems to have been meant to be ICE. Which might have been better served by showing the Flagsmashers liberating people in cages. Which would dramatically have different connotations.

And while it's an American series featuring American characters, not every country has as bad a problem with heavily armed policemen regularly killing citizens. So there's that.

I'm not saying that some of what is said about the military doesn't also apply to police but I don't think that was the original intent of the show.

Edited by jakobitis on Apr 18th 2021 at 11:54:02 AM

To be honest, I think you're a little hung up on that point. You seem to be indicating that there are contexts in which a brutal extrajudicial murder is justified. That the context of a Flag-Smasher killing Lemar makes it okay for John to beat another Flag-Smasher to death with his shield. That justice should be reserved for innocent people, but those guilty of committing a crime should be slaughtered in the streets with extreme prejudice.

I think the fact that you can't see John's murder of Nico as wrong unless Nico is wholly innocent of any and all wrongdoing says more about your relationship with authority than it does about the scene. And I think the fact that some people even can get so hung up on this that they go, "I mean, he's a criminal so why was this bad?" is exactly why it's so important that Nico isn't wholly innocent.

It does not matter whether George Floyd committed any crimes or not. Murder is murder. After every single one of these situations occurs, the only people who care about litigating a victim's innocence or guilt are the ones looking for a way to defend his killer.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Apr 18th 2021 at 5:03:59 AM

John could've just brought the shield down on Nico's leg instead. Now he can't run and can be captured and dealt with judicially. But John didn't do that, because he just really wanted to kill this guy messily.