The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

With WandaVision wrapped up and The Falcon and the Winter Soldier coming out on Friday, I figure it's time for a thread. Final trailer:

This is going to be something. I've seen stories use the dynamic of "Character's supporting cast carries on after they're gone" before, but it usually winds up being a fakeout setting up for the hero to show up at the eleventh hour and save the day for everyone. Which is always disappointing.

"Can Hero Man's friends do the thing without Hero Man to save the day? No! No, they cannot. Everyone sucks except Hero Man."

There is more or less a zero-percent chance of that happening here. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier is leaning into the idea of supporting characters being promoted to lead for real, and I'm here for it.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Mar 15th 2021 at 8:37:48 AM

I said way back when the MCU started that it had the advantage over comics because it had to move forward. They can't bring back Steve and Tony because the actors don't want to come back. There are only so many fake retirements and Death Is Cheap and the like that you can pull when the real people behind them can't keep going forever.

While I don't know how this specific plot went in the comics, in general yeah it's like "sidekicks run around for a bit before hero comes back and fixes everything." That absolutely is not going to be the case here. This is a show about Sam becoming the new Captain America, not holding onto the shield for a few weeks.

At the very least, it looks like it could be fun.

And I do like the idea, as mentioned above, of the former "sidekicks" becoming the heroes in earnest.

Who’s ready for the cinematic debut of the Bombshells?

Just kidding. I think this will be fun.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Mar 15th 2021 at 10:26:35 AM

I agree with the above, one problem with comics is that they abuse the Status Quo.

So a hero who retires and gives his mantle to his faithful sidekick ends up coming back anyway.

Watch Evan Peters show up like, "Hey, guys, I'm back! It's me, your friend Steve Rogers, back to reclaim my position as Captain America. I had my age rejuvenated with the Infinity Formula; comic fans remember the Infinity Formula, right? But it probably affected my face and that's why I look like this. Boy, is it good to be back and ready to take up the shield again, boy howdy something something racism? The letter on my forehead doesn't stand for France!"

But then he turns out to be an obvious plant working for Zemo and all of that stuff about the Infinity Formula was made up.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Mar 15th 2021 at 11:01:18 AM

Is Zemo going to be Agatha all along?

No, it'll turn out he's actually a guy named Ben Dover

Ha!

I'm really interested with what they do with USAgent considering this show's clearly taking cues from Nick Spencer's Captain America and we've seen practically nothing of Walker in trailers. If it's anything like WandaVision it's going to run straight into those topics, potentially fueled by one of the writers being involved with Watchmen (2019).

Huh to think this show might actually fulfill on the potential of Sam’s Cap run that it never managed to achieve.

x5: No, but Batroc is supposed to come back... It was the Algerian all along!

My guess is he'll be a little Season-1-of-the-Boys-Homelandery; have a character who represents truth, justice and the American way because that appeals to people except he's under the thumb of by The Establisment^tm.

Edited by Synchronicity on Mar 15th 2021 at 11:50:43 AM

I mean, even in season 1 Homelander is a monster who believes himself superior to every other person on earth, who kills on impulse and is socially stunted due to his traumatic upbringing.

Walker, even at his worst, is never that bad.

I can imagine Walker might have an Ultimate Cap personality.

Inherently a decent person but with a Hell of a lot of flaws including being a dog for the army.

I'm a bit concerned about how they will do the Flag-Smashers. Because tbh, the idea of a far-left anti-nationalist "anti-patriotic" terrorist group whose leader is a woman sounds like it came right out of a Fox News wet dream.

Edited by Nightwire on Mar 16th 2021 at 6:34:28 AM

It's kind of funny, because that basically sounds like the Bombshells in Nick Spencer's run. just without the Comicsgate-style parody of "Social Justice Warriors".

Were Spencer's Bombshells canonically an-offshoot of the Flag Smasher?

I wonder if that will get a wink by Kellyman's character making a joking reference.

From what I understand, at least according to the Tropes page, that run wasn't all that great. Maybe a wink and a nod, but that's it.

Speaking of nods, did Walker have an A on his forehead? It looks like a combination star and "A".

Edited by Beatman1 on Mar 16th 2021 at 11:31:37 AM

His tar looks to be stylized so that it also resembles an A.

Overall, I like his costume, though I think I prefer his black comics uniform.

"Because tbh, the idea of a far-left anti-nationalist "anti-patriotic" terrorist group whose leader is a woman sounds like it came right out of a Fox News wet dream."

I don't see the problem, especially considering that US Agent will probably be a much worse villain than they are.

I expect they'll probably try and take a centrist position, where both "liberal terrorism" and "evil conservative super-cop" are problems that Sam and Bucky need to deal with. Pretty standard "Commentary on modern struggles that doesn't actually say anything or take any sides" fare.

The Miles Morales Spider-Man game did something similar, casting both bomb-throwing anarchists and corporate-owned super-cops as its villains (while actual police dropped off the face of the universe).

Edited by TobiasDrake on Mar 16th 2021 at 12:50:53 PM

You know I'm definitely not opposed to a show having both left-wing terrorists and right-wing terrorists. But, given my admittedly left-wing leanings, if you're going to do both you should try to really explore both the motivations of both groups and show why a left wing terrorist comes to the conclusions he does versus a right-wing would. Like I love FMA 2003 and I especially love Scar there. I'd say he's a left-wing terrorist, but you really come to see why he is the way he is. Most right-wing terrorists come to that conclusion through wanting to control, whereas a left-wing terrorist generally comes to that conclusion through either oppression or wanting freedom.

Left-wing terrorism should not be a taboo. Yes, in the USA right-wing terrorism is the bigger problem today, but that doesn't mean that left-wing terrorism doesn't exist.

The proportion is quite lopsided, at least in the US. According to one security think tank, far-right groups were responsible for 67% of violent terror attacks in 2020, while far-left groups were responsible for 20%.

Two things: that's still a lot, and well I was pointing at that my hypothetical show would be more sympathetic to the left wingers. But I don't think it's wrong to make stories about them.

Which is still 20% too much.