The Spook vs Flat Character

To avoid trope misuse, does this make sense on Canonical List of Subtle Trope Distinctions:

Flat Character vs The Spook:

• A Flat Character has no depth beyond one or two traits and are fairly generic with only the barest amount of characteristics to tell their role in the story.
• The Spook has no background or history and their motives are unknown. This character's mystery provides some motivation for the story.

Am I correct with this, and would this fit on Square Peg, Round Trope:

• The Spook should not be used for every character who has no background; some fit in better being described as a Flat Character instead. A character can be both tropes, but not always.

Edited by Merseyuser1 on Feb 7th 2021 at 1:52:53 PM

That's okay.

Any ways to improve this?

The Spook is surely defined by the work playing up their mystery. They should be mutually exclusive at any one point, because we don't know a Spook well enough to tell if they have no depth behind them. If the audience is later allowed to see them properly, and they have no further details of interest, they can be considered a flat character from then on.

But to me what defines a Spook is not how little we know, but how they are presented. A Flat Characters is what-you-see-is-what-you-get, but a Spook is presented with some implied hidden depths, and an invitation to speculate upon their motives. The two pages quoted above should reflect that better.

I don't really get why there's any confusion between these two tropes. A Flat Character is one who has very few distinct characteristics. The Spook is a character with a mysterious background. They aren't even remotely related. "Having a mysterious background" should be considered distinct enough to push past Flat Character by definition.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 14th 2021 at 10:23:25 AM

Agreed. I don’t see how they can be confused for each other.

The ATT thread seems redundant and should get a lock.

I also don't see how this could be confused. However I'm not sure if The Spook could get much characterization, then it would be a Sub-Trope?

Is it relevant for Flat Character as a trope that the characterization is irrelevant to the plot?

Flat Character isn't really negative per se, due to The Law of Conservation of Detail Flat Characters are a necessity in almost any work.

Edited by Sirena on Feb 14th 2021 at 9:31:42 PM

Yeah, Flat Character is meta contextual, it's a criticism of the portrayal of any character and can apply to any character type. The Spook is a character type where the lack of backstory is intended within the context of the work.

"Third soldier from the left" fits the definition of a Flat Character but I don't think anyone (except Star Wars fans) would demand that every extra in a film get a backstory and emotional arc. It's more reasonably used in criticism of main cast members, but even then it's sometimes used intentionally to contrast more dynamic characters. Tropes Are Tools.

The point is that there is no need to explicitly contrast it with The Spook because they are orthogonal concepts.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 14th 2021 at 11:16:52 AM

The Spook says that them mystery behind them is what makes The Spook works as a character. Take that element out and they become a Bit Character or Flat Character.

Yes, take characterization details away from a character and they become a Flat Character. You could say the same for a Genius Bruiser or The Mole.

I would further argue that a Spook, even without their mystery, needn't be flat.

A character that's fully fleshed out with motivations, goals, traits, etc. may still have a mysterious background, and thus be a Spook. Drop the mysterious background and they still have motivations, goals, traits, etc.

I think I'd confused the two for when both types of character have no background.

I don't see how, though. A character can be flat with a detailed backstory. There is literally no relationship between those concepts.

My mistake for misunderstanding tropes slightly; trying to give the canonical list page an update.