Confusion over the definition of Brick Joke

(Copied from Ask The Tropers per recommendation.)

A while ago, I started a wick check for Brick Joke in preparation for an eventual Trope Repair Shop thread. As I was working on it, however, I realized that I wasn't sure if it was applicable to serious situations or not. I know Tropes Are Flexible, but I wanted to ask about this so that I can have a working definition to use in sorting examples.

The page description focuses far more on the comedic aspect of the trope, leading with an explanation of the Trope Namer (an actual joke, naturally). However, it does mention that the structure of a Brick Joke can apply to dramatic situations as well (potholing Chekhov's Gun and then mentioning Chekhov's Gag). For whatever it's worth, the Laconic page explicitly defines it as humorous:

A joke that was set up and forgotten about finally gets a punchline.

Looking into other pages only exacerbates the confusion. Square Peg, Round Trope likewise defines it solely in terms of comedy:

Brick Joke is a funny event which is set up early, but the punchline doesn't come until later. It's not a reference to something that happened before that just so happened to be funny. It also isn't a funny joke that gets used again later unexpectedly, which is either a Call-Back or a Chekhov's Gag. It's also not (necessarily) a joke about bricks.

However, LaconicTropeDistinctions.A To C defines it as "You don't know why it was there until it shows up again later." This seems generic enough that it could include both comedic and dramatic examples.

Finally, TropeDistinctions.A To C explicitly says it does not have to be limited to actual jokes, contrasting it with Chekhov's Gag partially because the latter is solely about jokes:

A Chekhov's Gag is humorous, involving a joke being set up, paying off, being forgotten by the viewer, then much later paying off yet again.

[...]

A Brick Joke is not solely about humor, and is plot-related. A minor, insignificant, or seemingly concluded event occurs, and the viewer is meant to think it over and done with. The event then recurs much later on to effect the plot in an unexpected way. In some ways, it is actually a Call-Back with plot significance.

This last sentence is also confusing, as Call-Back appears to be defined as "a reference to an earlier event in a series that's relevant for the plot" - in other words, it has plot significance. (And Call-Back's page mentions Brick Joke as a comedic trope, too.)

My question is this: what exactly is Brick Joke supposed to mean? Is it solely comedic, or can it include dramatic examples as well?

Edited by BlueGuy on Sep 12th 2020 at 3:33:15 PM

I think it's supposed to be comedic. And yes, it does get misused as a Call-Back or a Chekhov's Gag.

Sorry, mods, I thought I was on Wiki Talk.

Edited by ccorb on Sep 12th 2020 at 7:23:00 AM

Just edit out the Trope Talk or Wiki Talk part...

Anyways, yeah, Brick Joke is simply a "very late punchline". Chekhov's Gag is when something which was brought up as a joke becomes meaningful/important later on storywise.

Although I dunno if Chekhov's Gag and Cerebus Retcon are any different...

Chekhov's Gag isn't as Played for Drama as Cerebus Retcon.

That line on A to C "In some ways, it is actually a Call-Back with plot significance." should go as it makes no sense.

Thank you all for the feedback. Once I get the wick check finished, I'm planning on running it by the Wick Check Project thread before anything else.

Should I go ahead and remove that part?

yes

I've even seen Brick Joke used for what is really a plain Running Gag.