Fire Emblem Three Houses (Spoiler Thread)

Understandable.

Hope you have a better day.

Yeah, take care mate.

Mmhm. While - as you pointed out previously - Seteth is not without his faults, his Hidden Depths as shown in practically every Support he has makes him one of my favourite characters; anyone who doesn’t have him at Top 10 of 3H is honestly surprising to me, because he’s so robustly written. Of course, so too is Flayn an extremely nuanced character, but it stands out more with Seteth because he looks and comes across as a Jerk with a Heart of Gold at first, except... not only is the “jerk” ultimately minimal, he’s perhaps the wisest member of the cast as a whole.

If only Rhea were willing, and able, to trust him and his judgement more, a lot of problems could have been avoided. Alas...

Nah, I understood you there and completely agree.

Edited by CaellachTigerEye on Jul 3rd 2020 at 3:51:56 AM

Like look, i've said my opinion that Seteth has done ethically wrong things, but his heart is in the right place and he still fights for Fodlan post time skip despite Flayn being his numero uno priority.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 2nd 2020 at 10:51:38 AM

/ Honestly, they're probably two of my favorite characters. Heck, Flayn was even the character I S-Ranked on my first playthrough.

I love Flayn despite being put off by her archaic speech patterns making her sound like a 50s well mannered lady in medieval Fodlan.

Legit, she's just so kind and pure without coming off as too saccharine.

Plus it's hilarious how much she praises Cethlenn in Ingnatz's supports.

And her growth on SS by growing to be a leader without losing her kindness is one of the best parts of SS despite the route torturing me.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 2nd 2020 at 11:16:29 AM

Flayn easily takes the crown as the cutest character in the game.

Can you seriously compare Seteth, Flayn, Alois, Mercedes, and Marianne to Edelgard, Hubert, and Thales and say that the game is pushing the Church of Seiros as the bad guys? Every faction opposing the Central Church, whether it's the Western Church, the Adrestian Empire, or Those Who Slither in the Dark, is portrayed as hamfistedly evil.

Edelgard: Hey Hubert, what are you doing?

Hubert: Executing the latest dissident milady. This fool dared to spell your name with y.

Maybe one of these days, we will finally have a lord who more like Ashnard or Zenos. Evil, but has a coherent vision for the world, and have moments to show their equal opportunity evil.

And most importantly DO NOT USE THEIR TRAGIC BACKSTORY AS A CRUTCH.

Ashnard's motive is that he was passed over because he was a distant relative. He sure showed his relatives his skill, and Zenos embraces being a villain and doesn't hide behind a tragic backstory to make gamers sympathize with him, unlike Fordola and Yotsuyu. Gharnef also has the most petty motive of being passed over for a promotion and tome, so he decided to conquer/then destroy the world, but he's so much fun to use in Heroes.

Let us play us these types of characters IS.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 2nd 2020 at 11:58:37 AM

Her more loony fans are the ones that use Edelgard's backstory as a crutch. Edelgard herself never makes uses of it and only AM vaguely alludes to it.

Her backstory only explains how she ended up reaching the conclusions she has and even gameplay wise, knowing it is merely half of the requirements to access CF. Heck, it's fairly possible to end up on the Silver Snow route and still have no idea why she hates the church so much, since unlike with Dimitri, Claude and even Rhea, her backstory is not part of the main plot.

I guess that's why I like Hubert so much. Dude simply IS lawful evil and his past only tells you why he's so loyal to Edel and why he hates his dad.

Edited by Blackress on Jul 2nd 2020 at 12:27:56 PM

EXACTLY, Hubert's backstory explains not justifies his crimes, that's why i respect him, and consider him the character Iago wishes he was.

Still one of my problems with CF, is that at times, it seems to be saying Edelgard's tragic past justifies her crimes with like the whole painting and rat scene being done to distract you with KAWAII from Edelgard's more dirty business.

And lets be real, most people in the forums and fandom don't really believe Edelgard is sincere about her ideals and desire to fix Fodlan. Most people either paint her more noble actions like stepping down after reforms are done, attempt to destroy blood rights and install a benevolent meritocracy in a much more darker light. Or call her female Hitler.

So i say if we are allowed to play as the Empire next game make them as evil as possible and let us cut a bloody path on the next continent, no noble ideals, just the desire to kill our enemies like most players. Have our next imperially inclined Lord be a charismatic bastard like Light Yagami who's noble ideals are just an excuse to indulge in dealing death and stoking personal ego or like Ashnard and Zenos who enjoy being on the battlefield.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 2nd 2020 at 12:42:53 PM

Hey were just pointing out the logical conclusion of a Meritocracy. I dont have to think Edelgard is being insidious to think she just has zero idea how inequality or merit based systems and their entrenched inequality actually works.

My biggest Hubert-related disappointment is that his big secret isn't that he's secretly a vampire who has Kostas locked up in a dungeon so he can drink his blood.

Also disappointed that he doesn't have an ending where he becomes the Horror of Shambhala, a bogeyman who attacks Agarthans and drains them of their blood. This one is more understandable though; drinking Agarthan blood probably makes you stupid.

I do wonder how Edelgard would have been received if Crimson Flower was more like the Demon path from Soul Nomad.

Now THAT"S a villain path.

But you do see Edelgard as more motivated by conquest and acquiring power than reforming Fodlan do you not?

Now i just have this image of Hubert with a goblet filled with blood enjoying his downtime.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 2nd 2020 at 12:53:28 PM

So I recently thought about how some of the plot points involving the Church of Seiros sort of remind me of Arcanum, right down to the backstory involving an ancient technologically advanced civilization that was destroyed by a powerful magic-aligned person, and your party eventually visiting what's left of said civilization. And that was interesting specifically because of a certain plot point concerning that game's local religious cult, which is obviously massive spoilers, so:

Basically, the whole prophecy about you being a reincarnation of said cult's messiah figure? Complete rubbish, but for extremely good reasons. The real kicker, though, is that you don't actually find that out until near the end of the game, and by that point you're obviously so deep into the plot you might as well go save the world and become someone much more worthy of worship than the original was.

While I'm not fond of CF's epic "religion is evil" plot which conflicts with its attempts at being the villain route (come on, if you're gonna portray Faerghus as the bad guys, why are we still the invading side?) and does very little to suggest there's more to Rhea than what's shown, the sheer irony of Edelgard never realizing that Byleth was Sothis's vessel and not just another one of her descendants was pretty amusing. But so was the way Rhea dumps Byleth into the role of the Church's leader on other routes in hopes they'll fix everything... and they actually do fix everything, despite technically not being Sothis.

The big joke the game plays is that Rhea believes if she can bring mommy back, then mommy will fix everything. And she's right, even if mommy decides fixing everything entails blowing up the church and striking down some of her few remaining children. Edelgard can't achieve her vision without the goddess she hates, and Claude needs the power of a goddess he doesn't believe in to have the ability to accomplish anything.

Speaking of , I wonder what a For Want Of A Nail version of the plot would be where Byleth doesn't exist or isn't around the house leaders by the the end of Part 1, like Jeralt never arriving to the monastery. In that version I can imagine Edelgard would eventually win a war of attrition, provided she survives Kostas' attack from the Prologue.

Kostas lands a crit and kills her.

Dimitri observes the body and finds out shes the Flame Emperor cause she left her chuuni mask on her, and curses her with every fiber of his being.

Claude pilfers the body for any goods he can use before Dimitri kicks her into a pit.

By that point in the story the mask wouldn't mean anything, though.

And then the Slithers lose control of their nukes and keep firing indiscriminately creating the lands of Nohr and Hoshido.

Taking player driven narratives to it's logical conclusion.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 2nd 2020 at 2:23:26 AM

I've in the past compared Edelgard to Genghis Khan, Oliver Cromwell, and Vladimir Lenin, but I recently read about Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, and I think he is the closes historical parallel. Atatürk wasn't a noble, but otherwise his life followed a rather similar trajectory to Edelgard. He came to power in a coup and held power as a benevolent dictator. He promptly abolished the monarchy and nobility in favour of a merit-based government and civil service. He himself was some flavour of unbeliever, most likely an agnostic if not outright atheist, and had a generally poor opinion toward religion; as such, he dismantled much of the Islamic-based legal code, transitioning Turkey from a de jure Muslim country to a secular one, abolished the Ottoman Caliphate, changed the calendar from anno hegirae to anno domini at the same time as Turkey switched from the Rumi to the Gregorian calendar, officially separated church and state, and abolished the millets, the system of parallel courts adjudicating on religious matters. He also granted equal rights to women and implemented mass state-run education, seperate from religious groups.

He also finished the Armenian genocide.

That link decided it didnt want to work. Hate when that happens.

What do you mean by "finished"?

Also, while I agree that properly establishing Seperation of Church and State is important, I'm wary of anybody described as a "benevolent dictator".

I'm reminded of that 1984 quote where O'Brian states no one seeks power with the intent to relinquish it. And that they are superior to Nazis and Soviets because the Party admits how evil they are.

Bloody diacritics...

Try this one.

The Ottomans started a bunch of genocides toward the end of their reign, not only against Armenians, but also Assyrians, Greeks, and Bulgarians. Atatürk continued this. Long story short, after World War I, Turkey was broken up by the Allies, and Armenia got a chunk with a bunch of ethnic Turks in it. Atatürk wanted that bit, and carried out a massacre of ethnic Armenians in Turkey, attacking an annexing western Armenia. Atatürk at least had the decency to feel bad about the loss of so many Armenian lives, but Turkey has ever since denied that this constituted a genocide.

Modern Turks generally approve of Atatürk, and they're the ones who call him benevolent. Unlike Edelgard, he didn't step down; however, he did reform the government so that after he died, Turkey immediately transitioned to a multi-party democracy with free elections.

Edited by VampireBuddha on Jul 2nd 2020 at 5:00:17 PM

That's also had a military coup every two decades or so.