Fire Emblem Three Houses (Spoiler Thread)

Y’all aren’t wrong, except that I specifically said the original game is what did Claude no favours, not Three Hopes; the latter actually brought much of his characterisation into the forefront, not merely in GW but SB & AG too.

But because his characterisation was not as much in the forefront, many fans missed the numerous hints that Claude’s pretty anti-Rhea (and the “shape” of Fódlan under the Central Church’s current status quo) himself; all routes put him against Edelgard, his own route has him at least showing empathy when he learns Rhea’s Freudian Excuse (even if he considers her dying to still be preferable than if she lives), and the specific nuances of his ambition and how they differ to Edie are pushed aside by the narrative structure.

For an (admittedly extreme) comparison, many people cite The Silence of the Lambs as transphobic due to Buffalo Bill even though we’re told explicitly by Lector that Bill isn’t truly a member of the community and they’re normal, harmless people (the novel goes deeper by having Clarice inquiring at a clinic, where they make it clear how scared they are about being associated with the Bill case)… Yet, many people go away feeling it’s a story that furthered transphobic ideologies and the fears of people like the aforementioned Rowling, who misunderstood it as, “Look at this depraved monster; clearly being trans is dangerous”. Rather than the intended, “This depraved person is an outlier and no more accepted of this community than NAMBLA are by non-straight men”.

My biggest problems with the “Unification Inherently Superior” thing the game pushed, are: a) the fact that different ideologies are driving the faction leaders, means there should be different outcomes for whoever comes out on top (let’s also remember how somehow, the entire Hresvelg lineage since Wilhelm I will die with Edelgard, despite how much they should have intermarried over the millennium*); and b) they don’t provably present an argument for how this by itself, a complete centralisation of power in one person, is supposed to solve the social ills of the continent. And so on… if you want stories which show why Unification should happen/is the best way, look at Tactics Ogre and Triangle Strategy

• On this one: while not impossible, it’s a stretch to believe they all somehow died out; even if all ten of Edie’s siblings are dead or mentally non-functional, what about the past? And if we want to assume foul play? How do we parse the Slitherers being both pathetic wretches and Thales being The Chessmaster extraordinaire…? What, was every single conflict since Nemesis dying some “All According To Keikaku” until they tripped the damned finish line, or some masterclass in Xanatos Spped Chess that reeks of Informed Ability (the man who couldn’t even bother to make minuscule donations after replacing Arundel, just because he’s that hateful, somehow orchestrated everything up to ensuring there’s a Single Line of Descent for the Hresvelg family without fail? Please.)

TLDR; don’t be the Mass Effect 3 Audience-Alienating Ending. Instead, be the Golden Ending of Armoured Core 6.

The Lords may have their own views and ideologies, but Houses absolutely runs on everyone having similar tragic backstories and related irony. Heck, even the countries themselves are frequently shown to have issues that are very similar or outright have the same cause.

That cause being their equivalent of a Nazi remnant.

I was gonna say dragon pope. Structural problems are always worse than practical problems.

Edited by ShirowShirow on Apr 22nd 2024 at 12:07:19 PM

C'mon, she wouldn't be a problem if the Nazis hadn't genocided her people.

...Or maybe the real problem is people being dumbasses, since when you consider how obvious the Agarthan infiltrators are to the player, how suspicious Relics are, how unexplained tragedies keep happening, etc., it gets kinda ridiculous.

Edited by YnK on Apr 22nd 2024 at 5:17:31 AM

, Frustratingly, the game often is content with "Rhea bad" as an analysis of Fodlan's problems. It's part of why I've become so cynical about the games writing.

Gonna disagree hard with that one. Within the setting of their world, it makes perfect sense.

Like, one of the barristas I get coffee from on my way to work used to be friendly and bubbly. About a year ago she became very sour and grumpy all the time. I do not suspect she's been face snatched by a mole person because that is not something I imagine possible in my world. I just figure she went through some really shitty personal problems.

And think about how much else we take for granted. I have no idea how this phone I'm typing on works. All I know is that it does. Wrap that up in with religious fervor and of course people aren't gonna question the relics.

Really the only person that could be argued "Should have figured out what was going on" was... Rhea.

Edited by ShirowShirow on Apr 22nd 2024 at 12:24:40 PM

Isn't taking things for granted supposed to be bad in general, in this sort of story?

I mean, Claude and Edelgard don't.

Rhea really suffers from not being one of the actual Lord characters.

Thus no Sympathetic P.O.V. for her.

Hence why people like the murderhobo, the imperialist, and the...um, other imperialist.

So what you're saying is we need another route where we constantly see Rhea conspiring with the cardinals and ranting about how humans are not ready for enlightenment and need to be kept in a gilded cage until her mom comes back?

BTW the one other person who does notice a lot of the weirdness is Hilda, but nobody would listen to her.

If the writers could spin imperialist conquest to be a feel good ending, I'm sure they can do the same with Rhea maintaining a status quo.

Besides, I'm sure she'd be a lot more open to change once all the Nazis are dead.

Edited by M84 on Apr 22nd 2024 at 8:39:03 PM

Also Jeralt and Seteth.

It would be pretty funny to see a Rhea route considering how she's handled by the writers.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Apr 22nd 2024 at 8:47:36 PM

I feel like a large part of why Rhea doesn't have her own route despite Silver Snow providing a possibility of her redeeming herself is because being around Byleth is actively a bad thing for her. Unless you somehow figure out a scenario that wouldn't require her to spend five years in captivity to process the fact her mom isn't coming back.

Edited by YnK on Apr 22nd 2024 at 5:51:24 AM

The writers conceived of Rhea purely as a villain. That there are people who genuinely like her indicates that they did a bad job of it.

Except being around Byleth isn't bad for Rhea, especially in Silver Snow. Rhea building a relationship with Byleth is not only what keeps her alive at the end of that route, but marrying Byleth turns her into someone who actively brings about positive change to Fodlan.

If anything, being around Byleth is shown as a good thing for Rhea, just like how being around Byleth is shown as a good thing for all the House leaders.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Apr 22nd 2024 at 8:23:02 AM

@Caellach Tiger Eye:

I did an analysis a while back about that exact point you bring up, and long story short, the Slitherers in the main plot behave with inconsistent influence because the story is trying to push Thales and his group into a role they cannot do without quickly running into a lot of issues (likely put there by the writers to prevent them of being the sort of Bigger Bad whose defeat would solve everything).

EDIT: @Tambourine:

The writers, considering Silver Snow came first, made Rhea as a highly suspicious yet tragic figure who's expected to be emphasized with that needs to be put down for the greater good for reasons beyond her agency (and can also be romanced/saved if the player knows how you can build supports with her). It's with KT's involvement that Rhea became much more than that (or completely irrevelant in Azure Moon's case).

Edited by Blackress on Apr 22nd 2024 at 8:14:49 AM

Again though, the way the route is written, Rhea's eventual redemption has to do with more than Byleth (even if their acceptance of her is what ultimately completes it in their S-support) — more to do with her spending five years thinking about what she's done and accepting that Sothis isn't coming back.

It might have worked if she was shown during Part I to be genuinely conflicted about her experiment because she grew to like Byleth as a person. Instead, even after Sothis seemingly fails to come back, she still gives no explanation of what she is trying to do or is expecting to happen to Byleth. And considering what it takes to make her start talking on SS/VW, you'd need something bigger than "Garreg Mach gets invaded by the Empire" to follow, if she is to become a proper focus of the route.

So, how would you go about making Rhea stop keeping secrets during Part I?

Edited by YnK on Apr 22nd 2024 at 8:30:03 AM

The first paragraph doesn't really disprove the idea that being around Byleth is a good thing for Rhea. Her still being cagey about being completely open to Byleth isn't a sign that being around Byleth is a bad thing for her, it just means that she still hasn't completely gotten over her trauma yet. Byleth does slowly start to pull Rhea out of her shell, but it's still a gradual process.

The game does show that being around Byleth has positive influences on Rhea, and it's no surprise that the one route where we see Rhea at her worst in Three Houses is the route where Byleth is teamed up with the faction that consists of people who want to see her kind exterminated.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Apr 22nd 2024 at 8:40:00 AM

That makes sense just looking at SS, but it gets complicated quickly when you start looking at the other routes just within Houses. And with hopes, Rhea is pushed even further into the periphery, the voices who hate her become louder and more numerous, including Shez's imaginary friend, and Even Dimitri proves that, while he'll work with Rhea, it's purely realpolitik and he can be convinced to turn on her.

Perhaps the writers meant for Rhea to be sympathetic initially, but they seem to have dropped that idea at some point.

(I'm also sceptical that there was any real difference in intention between IS and KT when it came to writing, but that's a different conversation).

I'm willing to believe there is, mainly because it's thanks to Kusakihara (the game's director) that Rhea's Tea Time data was finished and properly implemented to begin with.

IS may not mind that KT turned Rhea for the routes they handled into a less friendly figure (relatively speaking), but they sure as heck seem to be the ones that treat her the best overall if Heroes is any indication.

Edited by Blackress on Apr 22nd 2024 at 8:45:49 AM

The whole rebellion/assassination plot being so obviously a ruse to even a bunch of greenhorn students is also something the more seasoned knights should have been able to pull the string on to find something not being quite right at the end of the day. Instead, they just execute their only prisoners/witnesses and shrug. Hell, even Dimitri, with his amateur solo investigation, discovers more about the machinations of the Slithers than the Church ever does. The next closest investigation to turn up anything vaguely worthwhile is Rodrigue's, and we all know how bad he is at basically everything.

Rodrigue is only bad at two things: parenting, and not being stabbed