Mortal Kombat 11

A reminder that most anime-adaptation games are not very good & are more for just fanservice than anything.

You got it right. Tenkaichi 3 is a stupid fun button masher, Armageddon is a stupid fighting game. I don't really think they're comparable other than being Dream Match Games.

Where else can you pit Nam against Majin Buu?

I mean, I was a teenager when Tenkaichi 3 came out. I wasn't playing anything with a hardcore mindset. That's hardly the reason it's not good. Shit like "this character can hit through block and does whole life bars more damage than anyone" are why it's not good. Or "you can hold the punch button and keep any character in blockstun forever, so the opponent can't actually play." Or "only SSJ 2 Gohan or GT Gogeta are viable, lol sucks to be you if you like anyone else."

None of that is casual friendly. None of that is anybody friendly. One of the drawbacks to putting every character in a game is that if you do it wrong, people can't actually play those characters the way they're intended.

A frank assessment is this: if you make a game that puts every character in a beloved series in, that's casual friendly. If you make it so the player can play any character they like however they want, that's casual friendly. If you then make it so that half of those characters are not playable in comparison to a small handful of those characters, even when not at high level play, that undercuts the attempt to make it casual friendly by ensuring that casual players who want to just play their favorite characters can't do that.

That the exact reason why - for example - MVC 2 is one of the least casual friendly games in the MVC series: the character balance is hideous, so people who just want to play their favorite characters can't do much against people who just want to play the overpowered ones. The only reason it's considered hardcore friendly despite that is because despite that crappy character implementation, the gameplay is tight.

Tenkaichi 3 doesn't have that. It's just a bad game. I eventually took to mocking people and the game in general aping the broken characters by always choosing Nam (the weakest character in the game) and then instead of playing normally (because that was pointless), just exploiting that broken infinite I mentioned above to always win.

I don't like Xenoverse either (mostly because Tenkaichi 3 turned me off of that gameplay in general, it's going to be a challenge to like Kakarot but I'm going to try), but I'm never going to deny that Xenoverse is way better, and retains a strong casual fanbase because the mechanics actually lets those casual gamers keep going indefinitely.

</rant>

In any case, since it was drowned out by the flow of the conversation:

I wouldn't be so hard on SFV's newcomers. Of them, the only ones I'd say were bland from a character design point of view are Ed and Falke. There's Kage too, but that's just Evil Ryu - he's been around being boring forever.

V gave us FANG, Menat, fan favorite G, Zeku and freaking Rashid. It's newcomers are fine.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 12th 2019 at 8:59:45 AM

Who exactly did you play to make that assessment? It's been a lifetime since I've touch Tenkaichi 3, but no one I've ever played exploited the game like they did with Budokai 3.

Maybe I'm being blinded by Ed, but the newcomers like Falke & Kolin felt like they could've been better.

Granted, I'm also the guy who thinks SF III's cast wasn't as impressive as people claim it was so there's that.

Kolin didn't land well, if I remember correctly. She was just kind of mediocre. Abigail didn't at first, but only because he was used as this big EVO reveal when he was just a random character (everyone else completely owned Capcom that day) - the fandom warmed up to him and his eccentric personality over time.

The rest landed pretty well. Rashid was a fan favorite at launch. Laura was the new Ms. Fanservice, so people loved her overall. Menat definitely hit the ground running. I'm less in tune with the fanbase nowadays, but I think people love G because he's a meme, and Zeku got buzz for being a walking MVC reference.

But you're not alone about Ed or Falke.

You mean specifics? I don't have specifics, it was over a decade ago.

I played the game off and on for about two years, both online and in the occasional game stores and such (this being back when game stores had rooms gamers could play).

As for my assessment about what's casual friendly (specifically, whether bad character balance can be casual friendly), that comes from years of playing in varied audiences, organizing game rooms, my own experience playing games, common sense about what ruins the casual experience, and so on. Any mechanic that prevents a player from playing is going to get a bristly response from casuals.

Imo, the best gauge of how casual friendly a game is is to set up a television in a public place, put the game on and let people just play. If a game can hold the interest not just of the gamers, but of the people who don't already play the game, don't already play that kind of game, or don't already play games at all, that's that good casual appeal. I think the most response I've ever seen that way on a fighting game are MVC 3 and Ninja Storm.

But most of what I pointed out is broken gameplay mechanics anyway. Those remain broken no matter who you're playing.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 12th 2019 at 10:07:45 AM

Also, M11 didnt have many newrunners, it have kollector, Geras, Cetrion and Kronika compared to eight(I think nine) of MKX.

Also, I feel someone down the line much of the history was rework because how little conection if have MKX with MK 11.

Yup,Four new characters and every one else was a returning character.

But for some it wasn't enough because their favorite character didn't return.

I still remember people were harassing Boon even in tweets where he was giving respect to someone that died. Like people were asking about Mileena in his tweet about Luke Perry's passing.

Edited by Cortez on Oct 13th 2019 at 4:36:20 AM

As someone who almost exclusively played Mileena in MKX, her fanbase got REAL annoying in the lead-up to 11. I miss her too, but I understand that sometimes characters are given a rest and used it as an opportunity to try other characters. I ended up playing a lot of Baraka as a result, which I did not see happening before the game launched.

Games that want balance

• losing a character can be forgiven because using the same roster for every installment at the expense of new additions will just as often be a source of criticism as not bringing back every person's main.

Games that aren't about balance

• just throw every motherf-cker in there and let God sort them out.

Edited by Soble on Oct 13th 2019 at 7:35:44 AM

Personally I don't believe in brand loyalty, and there are enough good fighters out there that I can just play something else if such and such disappoints. These are mega corporations that want my money, so if my main or a character I don't like is discluded from a fighting game, I don't buy that game, simple as that.

I don't see why you should have to settle for someone else.

Because the gameplay of a game is more than just the characters that are in it. I like Mortal Kombat's gameplay and I'm better at it than other fighting games.

That and at time not having a chararter is hardly a reason to not bouy the game if the rest is great.

Also that sound like weird form of brand loyalty "Put my chararter and I will buy it", but meh anyway.

And yes I remenber that tweet, it was "who cares, were is mileena!" and when someone complain they just said "stop whinning snowflake".....

Jeez, social media can be the worst some times.

Not sure why that's so weird. I'm not beholden to buy anything. If it doesn't have a feature or character I like, why would I put my hard earned money towards it? I'm not gonna scream at the devs to do what I want, but I'm also not going to give them my money.

The other most appealing things about this game, the story, character interactions, and fatalities, I just watch on Youtube, otherwise.

Edited by Hashil on Oct 13th 2019 at 12:06:08 PM

Oh is not bad or anything it just feel weird because well...there is many other chararter who are intersting and many mode of playing, not buying for one is seen as kinda too much.

I usually only play a couple of characters in any given fighting game, and some are different enough from the rest of the cast I wouldn't enjoy the game nearly as much without them. I wouldn't buy a Tekken without Eddy or Christie to use another example.

It's also why certain core, iconic characters are never going anywhere. A significant number of people would be unhappy and possibly wouldn't buy a Mortal Kombat without Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Sonya, Johnny Cage, Raiden, and/or Kano.

Edited by Hashil on Oct 13th 2019 at 12:26:36 PM

I dont know sonya or kano since MKD was good enough without them, but eh I supused is a good reasoing if any.

I mean, that is why they introduce guess fighter, many just want to fight with them.

People warmed up to Abigail? Sure as hell could've fooled me.

Deception can't & shouldn't be compare to the reboot era.

That being said, I really did like how Kira played. Being a composite of Sonya & Kano.

It can in fact since MKD as one of the best MK game of the old era and one of the best story wise.

Aside of the super reconizable chararters all of them are fair game and some of them arent safe as reptile and kano.

Yyyyyyeah, I hate to break this to you, but Deception is actually not especially well-regarded like...at all. Majority opinion seems to be that it is not good.

The 3D era didn't seem that well liked in general.

3D eras for a lot of game series didn't fare so well.

Fighting games were especially bad at adapting to it.

The 3D era was rife with games of all types that did poorly when they made the jump. Mortal Kombat was just another notch on that list.

The problem was the insistence on 3D movement, which completely changed how the gameplay refined for 2D worked. It was...clunky for a lot of games not built for 3D from the ground up like the Tekkens and Virtua Fighters of the world.

Telling that a lot of the good non-Tekken/Virtua Fighter/Soul Calibur 3D fighters were essentially just 2D fighters but with an added sidestep option.

....What? I mean for is time IT was good, sure it have trouble but MKD was well recive.

I feel annoying when people seen to thing the franchine only turn good in the new trilogy, MKDA save MK and MKD was seen as one of the best MK until MKX and 11