RWBY Spoilers Thread

Ozpin's first instinct when it comes to important information is to keep it covered up. The story they spun about Leo dying "heroically" protecting the school and him not telling anyone about how the relic operates till he has too shows that he is still following that pattern. It really adds more to Ironwoods challenging of Ozpin's leadership if this is what Ironwood had to put up with for so many years.

At this point I have to wonder how much longer our heroes are going to put up with it. Considering the poster, trailer, the opening, and what we see in the premier its looking like Oz could be facing a rebellion in the ranks. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the characters decide that they no longer want Ozpin to lead them.

If that happens I wonder if we could see a split between those who still trust Ozpin despite his bad calls and those who no longer believe in him to lead them. Ruby and Qrow will probably stay loyal but I can see Jaune, Weiss, and Yang deciding to reject Ozpin. It would be ironic if despite the issues between them Yang ends up developing the same view of Ozpin and those who follow him as her mother. If it comes down to it I wonder what side all the other good guys will chose.

Yeah, I'll also agree I thought it was odd the turrets turned out to be a bad idea. I can kinda get the concept after the fact (not enough firepower which just has them swarm the passenger cars causing panic which attracts more Grimm), but it is a fault that the episode itself didn't convey that neatly while I'm watching it so I have a minute or so of going "What's Qrow's problem?". Add a few shots of the Grimm clawing at the windows, passengers screaming for their lives, followed by a shot of our protagonists having to see another group fly in.

I didn't even realize I had First membership. Sweet.

I wonder is the train turrets are a recent addition, so they didn't realize until now what would happen when used against a massed attack. Or maybe they weren't designed for that large a swarm, which only showed up because they had the relic on board.

Here a link to the trailer for episode two.

[1]

Looks like they made it to Atlas after all.

Nope, still in Anima. Just the part of it that snows.

I kinda feel like there's a lot of Informed Wrongness going on in the first episode.

Everyone is going "HOW DARE THESE GUYS (Dee and Dum) TRY TO PROTECT THE TRAIN!" when they are practically the bottom of the barrel because everyone else is dead thanks to a traitorous headmaster that, because of "MUH CONSPIRACY", is lionized as a(n) hero. Then they go "HOW DARE YOU USE A TURRET!" when 1) it's whoever made the turret on the passenger train's fault 2) the Grimm would be attracted to them anyways because of the Relic, and 3) it seems to be doing a lot more damage than RWBY.

Edited by Psyga315 on Oct 30th 2018 at 1:00:59 AM

Uh, none of them besides Ozpin knew the Relic was attracting them, the second they found out they immediately devised a plan to get it away from the passengers.

Like, thats literally all directly stated and then shown in the episode...............................

And no one said they were wrong to protect the train. They just weren't thinking with their proper heads.

The turrets being where they are aren't the worst idea in normal circumstances (putting them where the Grimm are most likely to attack), the problem is that they should have been shut off the second it became clear they weren't taking care of the Grimm quickly enough to offset drawing more Grimm that way. That huntsman was clearly in over his head since even having Qrow yelling the reason why he should shut them down didn't make him understand (although granted Qrow's lack of social graces contributed greatly to that).

Defense system that get worse the more you're in need of defense are shittily designed.

Edited by Saiga on Oct 31st 2018 at 12:09:49 AM

I disagree. Every defence system ever designed fails when you throw enough at it, that doesn't mean it's poorly designed.

It suddenly occurs to me that the way Dee's death scene cuts away from him after a few seconds probably means that from the girls' vantage point it looked like a scene from Pitch Black.

That's not the issue. The issue is that this system makes the situation worse.

That is truly, inexcusably shitty design.

And we're given absolutely no reason why it had to be designed in such a way as to draw Grimm toward passengers.

One might argue that the turrets need to be close to the passenger cars due to short range. That clearly isn't the case, though, as they were capable of firing at the Grimm that WEREN'T close to the passenger cars, which is how it attracted then to the cars in the first place.

There is no part of this situation that makes sense.

Well if you can't have them across the entire train then you'd want them to be next to what they're supposed to be protecting. No point having a defensive system that you'd lose if you don't have any cargo carriages connected.

Second any defensive system is going to draw the Grimm's attention to it, Grimm are only attracted to destroy living things but are still smart enough to defend themselves.

Third the only reason why the system was failing was because it was being overwhelmed by sheer numbers. Putting all of it in the back doesn't change this fact; as Grimm horde of sufficient size would destroy the system through sheer numbers and then go after the passengers anyway. So there is no upside to having them not be on the passenger carriages since any situations where having them activate be detrimental would be one where they're worthless full stop.

Fourth, look at the only solution that kept the passengers safe in the end; six trained Hunstmen drawing the Grimm towards the back of the train and disconnecting it whilst the combined effects of two semblances to obscure the passenger's presence. In short, a defence that simple can not be reliably replicated by an automated system or even with a manned system.

Edited by Shaoken on Oct 31st 2018 at 7:14:54 PM

Not if that actually puts them in more danger.

If it's that obvious that only makes things more stupid.

Completely untrue. The cannons WERE effectively killing Grimm, which is why the issue wasn't immediately obvious. So they weren't useless. And useless would still be better than actively detrimental, so put them on the back.

Putting them on the back isn't meant to solve the issue of numbers. It's meant to solve the issue of attracting Grimm to the passengers. There is absolutely no upside to having them NEAR the passengers, but there is a detriment to doing so - as seen in this episode.

If they weren't near the passengers, they wouldn't need to be turned off and would continue to assist the Huntsman fighting the Grimm. Therefore your statement is demonstrably false.

Which means it's completely irrelevant to this scenario or defending the shitty design.

They were not effectively killing Grimm, they killed five Grimm at a loss of three cannons, were completely ineffectual one on one against the larger Grimm, and were clearly missing the majority of their shots. And this was with 10 huntsmen supporting them and drawing the Grimm's focus across the entire length of the train. At that rate the cannons would have been destroyed before the Grimm horde was. Ergo my point that the issue isn't their placement, it's that this particular Grimm have the numbers to nullify the advantage which is true of literally every defensive system created.

See above, the cannons were being depleted at a faster rate than the Grimm swarm, ergo putting them at the back in this situation is worthless since the canons would be destroyed before the Grimm were eradicated, thus leaving the passengers unprotected and in the same amount of danger in the only circumstance that the turrets are a detriment.

Except their assistance was worthless in the fight anyway. I counted about 9-10 cannons on the front five carriages, whilst the cargo carriages only number 5. In the first minute of combat they down 5 Grimm but lose a third of their strength, and that is with 10 huntsmen actively supporting them at the same time. I can't get a good count on the Grimm but even with all the casualties they take there always seems to be about 8 of them in shot. And whenever a turret is destroyed it's always because it was firing at a different Grimm than the one that was attacking it. For reference, with the exception of the breach in Volume 2 and the invasion in Volume 3 most Grimm appear to be in groups of 6 to 12, so under normal circumstances the turrets would have wiped out a decent chunk of the typical Grimm pack in the opening salvo and then would have the numbers advantage.

EDIT: Also another point to factor in, Grimm get more intelligent as they get older. You put all the defences on the carriages that don't contain people, what's to stop an older Grimm from separating the carriages and leaving the passengers with absolutely no protection?

EDIT 2: Furthermore, there is an effective range demonstrated in the episode as none of the turrets hit any of the Grimm that RWBY are fighting at the very back of the train. Flipping that around then none of the turrets can effectively protect the front carriage, which is bad considering that if that one gets taken out the entire train comes to a stop and leaves everyone stranded in the middle of Grimm country.

Edited by Shaoken on Oct 31st 2018 at 9:00:48 PM

Again, worthless would still be better than actively putting people in danger. There's just no excuse for that.

If you're saying that putting them at the back wouldn't attract them away from the carriages, well, that completely shoots down the episodes' idea that the turrets attract Grimm to where they otherwise wouldn't be.

Even if they only kill some Grimm, that's not worthless. If they were positioned away from the carriages, they could have continued to use them throughout the fight, even if they were eventually destroyed.

They don't need to be able to single-handledly handle the Grimm to be useful. They contributed. The reason not to use them was not because they don't contribute - it's because the downside of putting them at the front outweighs their use. So don't put them at the front.

Or, the most logical plan, have cannons on the front and back of the ship and only use the back ones in a situation like this. If the only choice is for the defense system to make things worse or not be used AT ALL, that's a shitty defense system.

We've literally never seen a Grimm do something like decouple passenger cars. Even if they could, that still wouldn't be as dangerous as having the turrets on the front would be, as that attracts Grimm to the passengers.

No alternative creates danger like putting turrets on the front. Every idea and problem you have presented has boiled down to 'the turrets would not have helped' as the worst case scenario. This is far preferable to the worse case scenario we see in this episode, where the use of turrets makes things worse.

Edited by Saiga on Oct 31st 2018 at 8:42:26 PM

RWBY Volume 6 Chapter 2- “Uncovered" (thumbnail)

Synopsis: No matter how hard you may try to bury it the past will always claw its way back to you [1]

and a tester from RT twitter [2]

Sounds interesting.

Looks like we'll be figuring out if that is Cinder or Neo next episode, or at least get a hint at that.

I can't even right now

Editing: so from what's going on....is more backstory we'll have to wait until next week to see.

Edited by VoidsEmpathy on Nov 3rd 2018 at 11:26:55 AM

1. This episode went by really fast.

2. Djini in the lamp. With all the fairy tale motifs running around I really should have seen that coming.

3. Dammit Oz. Well at least the reason for the habitual secrecy is out in the open. Makes sense.

4: Tip for anyone that finds themselves in a climactic duel. If you find yourselves fighting someone on a cliff, make sure there isn't a river at the bottom of it. Lower chance of the opponent surviving.

At least they didn't bother to pretend Cinder was dead for that long. Although Roman's hat appearing still makes it seem like Neo will be involved somehow, or something related to Roman. Also we're finally getting the backstory for Salem.

Imagine if this was volume 5 the Cinder reveal would have come by episode 4 or 6.