Politics in Media - The Good, the Bad, and the Preachy

Those clothes are neat.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Feb 11th 2019 at 3:57:21 PM

Well I think Avatar was trying to criticize the idea that we don't need to worry about our planet, because we can find a back-up planet. This is an idea that's tossed around a lot around discussion of colonizing other planets. Avatar is arguing, essentially, that if humanity screws over its planet, it doesn't deserve a back-up. It's making a similar argument to cyberpunk about technology without social progress.

Personally, I have mixed feelings on this message. It is actually true that using space colonization to find a "back-up Earth" is a bad idea, but for different reasons than most suspect. There's two:

1: The technology to survive on other planets can be used to survive on a ruined Earth, and doing so saves you quite a trip.

2: A better use of space colonies is actually to preserve The Earth. If you have space colonies, you can exploit barren rocks and leave Earth nice and pristine.

Personally, I don't like the logic that humans have to 'deserve' to go to space. Humanity didn't deserve to wipe out smallpox, but that shouldn't stop us. Also, see reason #2-humanity colonizing space would help Earth out quite a bit.

Genocidal maniacs and fascists being more compelling is what helps various fascists and misantropic movements in real life with drawing large number of people to their side (or at least ones that casual with them) and shutting off arguments from opposition. Like it sucks already that altruism (doing good just because it's good and helps people) is considered a boring and "bad" trait in a character. There's already very large number of edgelords (not only amount teenagers, but among many adults and politicians), who advocate for mass murder or genocide (or at least don't see it as bad thing) in real life, because of various justyfications (with "overpopulation problem" being one of the most popular).

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Feb 11th 2019 at 8:02:25 PM

The fun thing is that most of them.would be killed for genuine WIE, there few ways to build a Utopia if the edgelords or the racists still breath.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Feb 11th 2019 at 11:00:31 AM

What does WIE mean?

Well-Intentioned Extremist, I'm guessing.

I’m just going to go ahead and point out that there is no valid argument for genocide or politicide of any variety.

Except in 40k, where the entire universe is constructed to make genocide the only sane response.

Or Daleks.

But the Doctor hates it anyway.

Or your average Dwarf Fortress player.

Elephants man.

Fucking elephants.

Goldenkaos: even in 40k is clear theig genocide is just a tendecy of imperium to be stupid and they are most of souce of grimdark, is not surprising that many problematic aspect have being writen out slowly, like the overused of exterminatus.

Adding to that, even within the setting's own internal logic many people are still way more brutal and xenophobic than they "need" to be. Truces and even temporary alliances are repeatedly shown to be possible, but they usually end because someone is being pointlessly dickish.

Edited by Corvidae on Feb 12th 2019 at 7:25:20 PM

Mind you, who are you making truces with?

• Chaos' forces are literally worse than Satanists.
• The Tyranids are a Assimilation Plot by the creatures from Alien (and what inspired the Zerg)
• The Necrons are Omnicidal Maniac forces working for Cthulhu.

And the worst?

• [spit] Elves

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 12th 2019 at 10:54:59 AM

While it's true that some species are alien and threatening enough that genocide is required (such as the Tyranids or Orks) it's hardly a universal trait.

For example, coexistence with the Tau (the species not the empire) is more than possible, it's just that by making every conflict a war of extermination the Imperium creates a gigantic self-fulfilling prophecy in that aliens are hardly going to be friendly when they know that the biggest human government wants to kill them all.

So no, the xenophobia of the Imperium of Man is not required by canon. It's both an understandable response to hostile aliens and something that is intentionally inoculated by the Imperium's policy makers.

Deleted for pointless argument.

Edited by ViperMagnum357 on Feb 12th 2019 at 3:26:25 PM

The necron now were trick by the deciver and they dont have unifed policy anymore, the tyranids are just animals and the eldar and imperium(and tau to some extent) used the warp so is not like they cant said all chaos is evil.

I think even some Eldar and Necron are able to live in "peace" with humans.

Spartan himself said that the species is fine but not the Empire.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Feb 12th 2019 at 2:17:19 PM

I suggest you re-read my post, I specifically said the species not the empire.

So no, this contradicts nothing I said.

Also. Saying that the Imperium is more honorable than the Tau...

Squidward-laughing.jpg

Edited by KazuyaProta on Feb 12th 2019 at 2:18:21 PM

Deleted for pointless argument.

Edited by ViperMagnum357 on Feb 12th 2019 at 3:26:40 PM

Honestly, I think if you play Warhammer 40K and want to talk about reforming the Empire to become a better place as well as make alliances with the Xenos...you're not really getting into the theme of the setting.

Sort of like playing a noir game as optimistic nationalist do gooder.

The world is shit and can't get any better. Humanity is doomed. How do you hold off the dark for a few more days?

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 12th 2019 at 11:31:00 AM

And now you're repeating literal Imperium propaganda. Spartan meant that even if the Empire is toxic, The Tau species aren't a Always Lawful Evil species.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Feb 12th 2019 at 2:32:33 PM

Rogue Trader ftw, where you can run your pocket empire however you want.

Edited by ViperMagnum357 on Feb 12th 2019 at 2:31:42 PM

The Imperium routinely brutalizes and destroys alien species, would you conclude that the actions of their state means that humans cannot biologically exist with non-humans? Of course not that's ridiculous.

Just like your inane position that because the Tau are repressive means that their species cannot coexist equally with others, I mean, I could use this exact logic and say that Europeans are genetically programmed to dominate because for centuries their empires did exactly that.

So yeah, why not stop confusing culture and biology? Because this is exactly the kind of logic people use to justify Islamophobia, "some Muslim states behave badly, therefore, all Muslims are murderous savages" is quite literally alt-right propaganda.