Avengers Endgame spoiler thread

There's no way Steve's first reaction isn't to assume that Skull tricked Natasha into killing herself and to try to kill a specter out of pain and rage.

Also, Skull himself is a cypher - we have no idea how good or evil he is, just that he's condemned to guide souls to the stone. Would he be happy about Steve's pain, resigned, or simply ambivalent?

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 9th 2019 at 8:55:59 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

According to the directors:

Joe Russo: He would have to encounter Red Skull. And nobody knows what the rules are when you return the Soul Stone.
Anthony Russo: Nobody knows. But knowing Red Skull, he probably has a no-money-back policy.

Joe Russo has further details on what might have happened as well as the Red Skull's current state.

"Red Skull would probably put the soul stone back to its location, and wait for the next unfortunate stone seeker to make a sacrifice. Cap and Red Skull probably won't fight. It's because it's his mission to return the stone to its original place. The Red Skull is also no longer the same Red Skull from FA. He is more like a ghost, you could almost say he's a completely different entity now. He only exists to guard the stone, his past conscious may or may not exist anymore."

Edited by Shadao on May 9th 2019 at 9:03:53 AM

You know, I'm really glad that they never brought back the Red Skull to be a Captain America villain again, like they did in the comics. In the comics, he just keeps coming back to life no matter what and it gets kind of silly.

It's weird, when Winter Soldier came out, I came across a spoiler that said Pierce was actually the Red Skull, which I was completely disappointed in. Thankfully, it turned out not to be the case.

The directors seem to be implying that the "soul for a soul" thing is not some cosmic feature of the Soul Gem, but instead just some shit the Red Skull made up.

That, uh. That's not how it was presented. In either film.

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Since Cap would be returning to a 2014 timeline where Thanos and his forces are all gone, there's arguably no reason for him to maintain continuity with his own timeline anymore. Thanos is never coming to Vormir for the Soul Stone, and placing it back in its original resting place just invites another sacrifice eventually in the future. Quite possibly Cap could return to 2014 and then just fling the Soul Stone into a star so no one else has to die over it.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on May 9th 2019 at 9:48:28 AM

Personally I like the idea of him just putting on a spacesuit and yeeting the stone back to Vormir from orbit.

"And that was America's arm!"

Actually the wording if anything makes me think Red Skull is part of the Soul Stone/stuff the universe is made up of that became the Soul Stone.

Since he's not the original Red Skull anymore, this means him and the Soul Stone are probably one and the same or some crazyness like that. So, uh, that makes things worse since a sociopath like Red Skull is the equivalent of a soulless Soul Stone.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

There is a great fanfic where Steve is just a little sh... and insist on talking to Red Scull "boss", and then makes a bargain which is brings Natasha back.

I don't know, the Soul Stone having such a requirement actually makes it harder for anyone to get their hands on it, especially bad people. Thanos was lucky that he brought Gamora along — imagine, instead, if he brought along one of his other children, whom he didn't love. Then what? He wouldn't have been able to get the Stone. That's probably why the Stone is protected as such — to avoid simply being taken.

In the comics, the Soul Stone has the power to manipulate any soul, living or dead (which is perhaps how the Red Skull became like that), which means that having the capacity for love and sacrifice would probably mean that the person who gets the Soul Stone wouldn't use it for nefarious purposes (unless, of course, they are Thanos). It's a litmus test that Thanos just happened to pass due to circumstances.

Or maybe spending seventy years alone with a power that's forever beyond your reach is enough to humble even someone as megalomaniacal as the Red Skull

Thanos teleports back, grabs Gamora, then teleports back-back and flings her off.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on May 9th 2019 at 11:47:14 AM

More to the point, the number of people that now know where the Soul Stone is located numbers zero.

Gamora knew but she's gone from the timeline that Steve returns the stone to.

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As long as the planet remains, it can be discovered again.

Thats true. But space is very big so at least the odds are very low.

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Eh, give it a century or two and eventually some Kree scientist will measure an irregularity in GB-113C’s orbit and that’s where the trouble will start.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on May 9th 2019 at 11:56:45 AM

Yeah, I have decided that shows like Runaways and Cloak and Dagger are simply set in the 2014 split timeline...it is the one the closes to the mainline but minus Thanos turning up and messing everything up.

Wow what character development /s◊

Thats ripe for a meme spoofing one of those online games where it shows a level one character and then like a level 50 character.

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That reminds me:

TL, DR, Thanos’s sword would be doubly more effective with all four edges bladed and a wider handle.

Thanos is pretty much a Sith Lord.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Thanos's sword is cooler than Kylo Ren's lightsaber, though.

I smell magic in the air. Or maybe barbecue.

Does anyone know if there are any reference, easter eggs, development gags, anything in the names on the memorial Scott looks through in the beginning? I just saw the movie a second time and couldn't catch anything.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

I don't know, I feel like if someone is prepared to straight up murder someone they 'love' for some power, their motives and character are automatically suspect. Obviously, Endgame shows that it still counts if someone jumps without being pushed into it, but that doesn't mean that's the most likely way the stone gets obtained.

Edited by Pseudopartition on May 10th 2019 at 8:00:40 AM

I've mentioned this before but I really liked Tony's death here. It's a really triumphant send-off for the character that I think puts a perfect capper on his arc. There are a few decisions in this movie I don't agree with, but Tony's endpoint is one I wholeheartedly endorse as someone whose favorite superhero is Iron Man.

I've often mentioned over the last ten years of MCU that my favorite, FAVORITE thing to happen in Marvel comics is when Tony Stark talks smack to eldritch forces of horror. Gods, sorcerers, cosmic forces of unknowable terror, Stark doesn't give a f*ck. He'll take all comers and do it in style. Dude once shouted down Odin to get access to Asgard's uru forge.

Consequentially my favorite scene in the whole MCU up to this point was Tony threatening Loki in Stark Tower.

• Loki: Please tell me you're going to appeal to my humanity.
• Stark: Actually, I'm planning on threatening you.
• Loki: Should have left the suit on for that.
• Stark: It's seen a bit of mileage; you've got the blue stick of destiny. Would you like a drink?

The casual and nonchalant way that Stark verbally throws down with a being who can end him a multitude of ways and gets away with it because he's just that awesome. That is Iron Man at his best.

Second-favorite scene, more recently, has been Thanos's Worthy Opponent bit in Infinity War. The admission that he knows Stark's name, his "burdened by knowledge" shtick, and the "I hope they remember you" sendoff he gives in what he intended at the moment to be Tony's death. Gave me chills. If that had legit been where Tony died, I would have been okay with that.

But Endgame's final Snap was everything I wanted from my favorite superhero's last film appearance ever.

• Thanos: I am inevitable.
• Stark: I am Iron Man.

That. That, right there. That is "Tony Stark talks smack to eldritch horror" distilled to its purest essence. I loved it so much.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 10th 2019 at 7:27:10 AM

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You know that the line wasn't even in the movie originally? The editor felt that something was missing and came up with it. So they reshot the moment the last minute making it fittingly the last scene which was shot.