She-Ra and the Princesses of Power

Oh everyone was already riding the bomb. It’s a planet sized bomb.

god damn what is it with you people and your weapons of mass destruction¬

Well I can’t speak for the rest of you, but I’m an American… I love the fireworks.

I guess my problem becomes, in part, that Glimmer's actions were excusable because she was on the right side of the war, which feels to me edges too close to the "It's okay when we do it; we're the good guys," narrative.

For me, the real leg up Glimmer has on it is that she showed immediate remorse for her actions. Oh, and no one had to not-die to spur on someone else's character development.

Well, I guess there's Shadow Weaver? But we didn't see a continuation of the series to A) see how that death and its parting knife twist lingers or B) pull Angela out of limbo because she's actually less dead than Shadow Weaver.

Sort of related, one of the things I'd like to see in hypothetical follow-up stories is Catra looking into ways of getting Angella out of the pocket universe and being the one taking the most risks in rescuing her. Show that she's changed by taking direct responsibility for her actions and doing work to undo her mistakes.

I feel like writers had to have Glimmer go off the deep end because that was the only way they could have her forgive Catra after she lost her mom.

Sidenote, I think I figured out the "problem" with the series - none of the villains have redemption arcs. They have self-improvement arcs. The story isn't about villains seeking redemption but about messed up people getting their life together. Like Bojack Horseman but more optimistic. Sure Catra stops hurting people but it's still more about her and how her constant lashing out is unhealthy for her. Yeah, Stevenson remembers not to have everyone immediately embrace reformed baddies, even Scorpia needs a moment to win heroes' trust but still stories use loops, writing tricks and conveniences to make reformation smoother and faster (Hordak's trick in particular being "no redemption to speak of, we'll just make a quick joke and sweep the whole thing under the carpet") Because redemptions are given, they're just things that need to happen, that's now what the story writers want to tell. It's the healing that really matters. That's why Double Trouble needs no redeption story, they're immoral but overall well. No confidence issues or self-loathing here. That's why Catra never had to answer for destroying Mermista's kingdom because that part has nothing to do with her inner turmoil. It's just war stuff.

Glimmer is also actually nice, without any of the bully/abuser aspects.

she was emotionally manipulative and quite literally abused her power during interpersonal relationships

It's literally a natural progression of her character arc.

What? Glimmer is plenty mean a lot of the time. Girl has plenty of moments of being awful.

Glimmer being a bit of an asshole was one of the more common complaints that the character got during the show's run. And yeah, she is, but that's why her character in Season 4 works so well (both on its own and as a mirroring of Catra's own spiraling). It isn't at all surprising that Glimmer would treat her friends like that when placed in a position of power, because she acted in similar ways when she was just a princess. Without Queen Angella, you've not only removed the one authority that Glimmer had to actually listen to (or at least be painfully aware of consequences if it is discovered she disobeyed) but also put her in a position of power where everyone else has to listen to her or otherwise go behind her back (just like she did with her mom). The most realistic way that setup was going to end was Glimmer screwing up royally, because that's the only way she could really learn anything in such a scenario.

Edited by RacattackForce on May 30th 2023 at 9:36:55 AM

On one hand yes but on the other I wouldn't say "literally dooming the planet" was something that I've seen as an inevitable development in Glimmer's life.

wait, you mean to tell me you haven't?

Like I’ve said, I find it quite amusing that the story seemingly sets up a dynamic of “who’s Adora going to get with? The sultry dangerous femme fatale, or the wholesome best friend next door?” Only to gradually reveal Glimmer is in fact not the safe choice, she’s just as messed up as Catra.

> Sort of related, one of the things I'd like to see in hypothetical follow-up stories is Catra looking into ways of getting Angella out of the pocket universe and being the one taking the most risks in rescuing her.

I don't know what state Angella would be in if she survived but me thinks she won't be the same person anymore

An argument could be made that Catra is still too broken to be ready for a relationship, especially with Adora, but too many times I hear that argument, it's always followed up with, "And that's why Adora should have ended up with Glimmer."

Firstly, that gives me second-hand flashbacks of the Shipping Wars of yesteryear.

Secondly, no, Adora just as much of a fuckin' basket-case as Catra. She is equally not ready for a relationship.

Child soldiers with PTSD are traumatized, who would have guessed?

the only people that get to decide if they're emotionally ready for a relationship are the people themselves

like, saying that people with mental health issues don't deserve/can't be ready for romantic relationships is honestly really fucked up

edit: also i'm so tired of the "catra doesn't deserve love" conversation, it just gets heated and goes in a circle

Edited by EpicBleye on May 31st 2023 at 10:31:52 AM

It's also immensely stupid because we barely even see much of their actual relationship as a romantic couple when the series ends just as they finally take things to the next level.

Like, we the audience are kind of supposed to take it as a given that Adora and Catra's relationship will work out. It's no different than literally any other movie or TV show that ends with the big romantic hookup.

The past several times that this thread has been revived has been to revive the Catra discourse and it's so infuriating and boring.

Edited by Diana1969 on May 31st 2023 at 9:34:21 AM

To avoid going too deep into the Catra conversation again I will say people have judged big romantic hookups in films and tv shows. There are just enough of them that people accept the messed up ones more easily than a rare kind of couple with a handful of examples.

The main thing I wanted to talk about is that with Glimmer there were a lot of factors that contribute to her queen arc.

The major factor that I feel gets forgotten is that Glimmer is essentially dropped into a position she was not fully prepared for and inherited a war they were losing. I honestly imagine in an ideal situation Queen Angelica probably figured she would be around to even act as an advisor as needed rather than the unexpected sudden ascending of the throne because of reality nearly falling apart.

There is also the fact that they had a spy double trouble making the small cracks in the trio's friendship worse to the point of acting behind each other's back.

There is also Shadow Weaver who while a valuable resource and magic teacher by default would cause problems because Adora knows how shadow weaver operates and would have a lot of concerns regarding Glimmer being within spitting distance of her.

The biggest thing to hinder their bond was the 'death' of the previous Queen. Glimmer was probably thinking that thought about blaming Adora multiple times and decided to not vocalize that thought and Adora most certainly thought that about herself. Unfortunately, a heated argument led to the dread statement that made the biggest fracture in the friendship.

Honestly, I think people are looking at the whole situation too much as a Catra vs. Glimmer thing when it was clearly just meant to show their situations as parallels to each other, with their own bad situations and personal flaws steadily leading to them making bad decisions that drive away those they care about, as well as give them something to bond over when they're stuck together at the beginning of season 5.

They also build into each other since Carta's decision set the stage for Glimmer's choice in the next season.

Honestly, every other main couple is disliked specifically because it's given that they hook up. Maybe the couple is dull, maybe they don't feel like they work together, maybe one of them screws up royally (only to be unavoidably forgiven) or maybe more interesting and healthy ship is presented (only to be dead on arrival) but the audience know that this will happen because blood red moon bonded them together or because their child from the future said so or maybe because it's just so obvious.

At least we were spared people constantly commenting that Catra and Adora will hook up. Closest we had was Scorpia commenting that she can't have a bond with Catra like Adora does.

What's funny is I always thought Bow/Glimmer was being implied. I thought it was obvious when Glimmer freaked out over Bow taking Perfuma to Princess Prom and it was just taking a backseat to exploring everyone else's various problems.

That's a strawman.

The Blood Moon thing was actually gotten rid of a few episodes before Star and Marco hooked up.