She-Ra and the Princesses of Power

"She-Ra, the moving story of a girl learning to get along with her wayward cat."

don't u just hate it when your cat blows up reality

I think the thing about the OG series is that while it had a really good premise (SPOP has effectively the same starting point), the execution was the same weird goofy shit as the OG He-Man and the same barely moving animation. And yeah, while there were some good writers on it, some of them (like J. Michael Straczynski of Babylon 5 fame) have talked about how difficult it was to write. They couldn't really do on-going plotlines and Mattel had a habit of showing up at the last minute and going "hey, you need to include this toy in the next episode you make." Combine that with how episodes had to be constructed around stills and as much reused animation as possible...it's not surprising it ended up as wonky as it did.

That's the real reason the old Merchandise-Driven shows tended to skew bad. Nowadays, while toy companies are still completely insane, they at least tend to plan ahead with their meddling a bit more.

For example, in MLP Princess Cadance was apparently the result of Executive Meddling, and I know the whole school plot was. But since they gave the writers more warning than "next episode we need these new characters for new toys," they were able to integrate them into the plot better.

Yeah, IIRC, Transformers had the same deal with the toys, they just generally knew a little earlier because most of the toys were being designed in Japan.

He-Man and She-Ra, it sounds like Mattel would literally send someone the instant the concept art for a toy was done and demand it be incorporated immediately. And because Filmation didn't outsource anything, they didn't really have any grounds to say no.

Since the the romantic rivalry between Catra and Adora was as much of an A-plot as the space opera, that meant that both plots had to be tied into each other and that meant one half of that partnership had to be hip in some dirt.

That dirt is all of the story's drama, tension, suspense and antagonism, and if that Catradora is going to be taking up as much conceptual space as it does, that means it also has to carry a lot of that dirt. And dirt does not for a healthy relationship make.

Although it makes for an interesting one.

Honestly, it feels like writing MOTU is easier than MLP. With Ponies you're forced the whole to make whole storyline about school or wedding of alicorn princess.

With He-Man? "Hey, remember that episode where Skeletor is after magic weather-controlling scepter? And you have a scene where he insults Beast Man and Trap Jaw for bit before He-Man throws them into mud? Well, change of plans, instead of Trap Jaw, use this new guy, Spikor."

Just swap one stooge for another and it barely makes a difference.

Um, the school storyline only happened very late in the show when they had basically run out of ideas, and it was somewhat forced on them by the execs. As for the alicorn wedding, that was all of one two-part episode. Hardly a storyline.

Still, two-parter episode. Not just 2-episodes, Big fancy season opener. It's not like this show does those whenever they feel like it. Not just that but they added a new alicorn when it used to be just two of them. Not to mention suddenly dropping Twilight's brother.

When He-Man had to add Clawful, they didn't have to make a big noise about it. Not even a single episode, just have Skeletor yell "It's He-Man! Clawful, you fool, get him!" And have them fight it out for like a minute. Have Clawful stand around in a few shots and the rest of the episode is yours.

Princess Cadence was incorporated deeply into the lore of the show. Whenever there was some big event, all alicorns had to be present and accounted for. Meanwhile, Man-E-Faces was in like 2 out of 130 episodes because he was hard to use. No one ever forced them to up power-up toys like Battle Armor He-Man or Terror Claws Skeletor. Hell, when Stinkor toy arrived, writers straight-up refused to use him and got away with it.

What are you talking about? Cadence hardly ever showed up in the show.

Do you even watch MLP? You sound like someone who quit after season 3 or so.

edit: nevermind, i just think we're getting off-topic lol

Edited by EpicBleye on Apr 30th 2022 at 6:58:44 AM

Well, look at me being accused of being a fake fan...

Look, putting aside that Cadence's very existence is controversial because she cheapens the concept of alicorn - she has a kingdom, a husband, a baby, and a royal wizard connected to one of the biggest later additions to the cast. She wasn't just "write a 2-parter and forget about her" character.

To do something similar, Filmation would be just writing Hordak only for Mattel to dump on them Horde Prime. Or if Mattel forced the idea that Sorceress has a second daughter. But no, barely any episode plot was enforced by toys. There weren't episodes about He-Man being brainwashed by Slime Pit playset or Double Trouble infiltrating Horde. Characters just are dropped without warning or introduction. Webstor didn't need an episode, he was just shoved into a story about Cat People that writers wanted to tell with Kittrina being much more prominent character.

Man-E-Faces and Faker existed since the show was conceived, the former had two episodes, the latter had one. Stinkor was never used because writers didn't like him. Jitsu was used once because some felt he was racist. The entire faction of Snake People doesn't exist because their leader King Hiss was never adapted and Tung Lashor and Rattlor were simply turned into another Horde members.

I didn't mean it quite that harshly, but you do seem to exaggerate a little about the show.

I agree that Cadence was an unwanted addition, though I don't agree it had that much of an impact. In the large scheme of things, Cadence didn't really matter at all once her introduction was over.

But, I'm sorry, you're talking about the old show, which I haven't seen, and I'm losing track of what point you were trying to make.

Edited by Redmess on May 1st 2022 at 2:49:01 PM

Fanart of Catra being a cat

more fanart of Catra,squish that Catra!

Just thought I'd share some the fan art I've favourited recently

There is this little detail about the show that keeps bugging me: when they introduce Double Trouble, everyone seems to automatically know to use the pronoun "they", even when they have no way of knowing that. Is that a sort of Breaking the Fourth Wall? It's telling the audience something the characters couldn't possibly know, after all.

It also made me realize that works do this a lot, but I guess it slips by unnoticed in most cases. I just noticed it here because "they" really stands out.

Interestingly, I was also reading Dungeon Meshi, and in that series, people do get confused about what gender some characters are, especially the rather androgynous elves. It never makes a big deal out of this, but it is interesting, and it acknowledges that Viewer Gender Confusion is not just for viewers. It even allowed for some characterization: one of the characters, Kabru, immediately guesses the gender of the main villain correctly, while Laios doesn't, which says something about their level of observation.

In English, they/them are the pronouns you use for someone where you're unsure of their preferred pronouns. And Double Trouble goes out of their way to be ambiguous, so they/them is the best pronoun choice to use at first, and Double Trouble never corrects anyone on it, so it sticks.

They/them singular in English actually seems to predate the singular "you" term, at least in surviving literature, so the idea that they/them isn't a default choice for someone who's gender identity is ambiguous or unknown is actually a modern aberration from the standard understanding. Chaucer used the singular they/them, for example.

Edited by Zendervai on May 10th 2022 at 11:04:14 AM

It also avoids having to go through the whole 'correcting someone on their pronoun assumption' thing, which I assume the writers were very aware would just be annoying.

An opinion I spouted off in a thread elsewhere:

Catra was the subject of very direct open abuse, she was allowed to know quite plainly how unloved and unwanted she was except as an accessory to Adora.

So when Adora learned how evil the Horde and defected, it was a slap in the face for Catra. Catra had been unabashedly immersed in the wrong end of the Horde's evil for her whole life. She thought Adora was as in on it as she was, Adora was on her side and only put up with Catra's flagrant abuse until they could both rise to power together. It's probably how she coped.

Adora saying, "It's wrong what the Horde is doing to these people," was a confirmation of what Shadow Weaver had long implied, that Catra wasn't "people". She was never Adora's friend, she was her pet. And that's what informed me a lot about her attitude towards Adora from then on out.

I wonder how much of the plot could have been avoided if Adora had also said "It's wrong what the Horde did to you".

But would Catra would have understood Adora or believed her?Catra is far from the trusting type

Yeah, it's Adora's fault for not cottoning on to Catra's particular brand of broken. /s

That's the unfortunate part of everyone being broken in some way.

About Double Trouble: it reminds me of the fact that Kipo And Wonderbeasts seem to be the only cartoon I can think of where gay has to tell people that they're gay to avoid confusion. I feel She-Ra aims kinda for "gay utopia" writing where no problems that LGBT bother with exist. I mean, writers even gave Catra and Adora what appears to be a biological child.

There is no indication that Bow's fathers aren't his biological fathers either.

I liked the headcanon that Bow's dads' insane number of kids was just them adopting every war orphan they came across but yeah, I suspect that gay magic is the real answer.