Catalan Referendum

Even the Iraqi government is handling the Kurdish refurendum better, they're just saying that it doesn't count and ignoring it.

I have no idea why the hell Mariano Rajoy didn't just do the same. But I guess most right-wing nationalists just aren't that rational.

edited 1st Oct '17 5:55:50 AM by Grafite

Except that they're gonna get soldiers to go to Kurdish territorial borders.

edited 1st Oct '17 6:00:08 AM by Ominae

To be fair, as much as I understand it, there have been a number of mini referendums in different cities which the government (and most of the population of Catalan) pretty much ignored, and so far it only resulted in the "let's split" fraction feeling even more in the right because those polls naturally resulted in a resounding "yes" with only the ones which were for it anyway voting. Apparently ignoring made the situation worse.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/oct/01/catalan-independence-referendum-spain-catalonia-vote-live

As of today, 337 people were injured by intervention of UIP. Madrid mentioned that officers acted professionally despite what witnesses on the ground said to journalists.

Guardia Civil is also involved.

edited 1st Oct '17 7:31:24 AM by Ominae

This type of action is presumably happening in other schools/voting places as well.

Man, why are they so damn worried about this vote? They are doing nothing but making things worse for them in the longer term.

I think Spain just hates the concept of anyone voting about whether they want to be a part of Spain.

In this specific case, Catalan is where a majority of Spain's wealth is concentrated. If Catalan split off with Barcelona as the capital, the part of Spain still run from Madrid would probably start falling apart really quickly.

Keep in mind though, this is the same country that's been obsessed with getting control of Gibraltar for decades even though Gibraltar will give them, at most, a slightly better trade location that won't really give that much of a benefit in the long run.

edited 1st Oct '17 10:07:52 AM by Zendervai

Well, there's also their eternal issues with Gibraltar, too. I don't think Basque country's too happy with Madrid either.

It would be kind of funny if Catalan's independence basically resulted in Spain immediately reforming with Barcelona as the capital.

I must say, I always knew Rajoy to be a regressive, corrupt run-of-the-mill right winger but I never thought he'd act in such a violent & authoritarian manner.

I'm starting to get sick of all the "but the government said the referendum is illegal so everything that's happened is justified" that's flying around.

I am enraged to see how much Rajoy is screwing the EU at the moment. He is just sending hordes of voters towards the extremes with his stupid authoritarianism, and extremes seldom support the European project. What a complete doofus.

I am pretty sure that the Flamish and Walloons in Belgium have less in common than the various Spanish provinces, yet they somehow managed to avoid this total mess.

I'm pretty certain this goes back to renaissance politics and one culture pushing itself even further over the others in the 20th century.

So we're up to over 760 injured now.

And yes, that is video of a police officer throwing someone down a flight of stairs then kicking them in the head. Which is apparently "[acting] with professionalism and in a proportionate way".

And Rajoy didn't even utter a word about them during his press conference. He didn't even decline to comment on the incidents. He deliberately & completely ignored their existance.

This whole thing is worrying. All this police violence basically legitimizes the independence movement. And if that is how Madrid reacts to a referendum, what will they do if Barcelona does declare independence

@43: You expecting this to be a rerun of Hungary '56?

The infuriating thing is that all the government would need to do to invalidate this referendum is to point out all the problems with the voting procedures:

Does this referendum comply with basic voting regulations?

But no...they HAD to go with Police Brutality. <facepalm>

edited 1st Oct '17 12:50:10 PM by M84

Well, I am not that familiar with this event, but skimming through the wikipedia article, I would say probably not. It is a very regional situation, after all, so even if all Catalunia start revolting, it wouldn't be on the same scale. Still, I do think there is a risk of radicalization. Now people who are pro-independence have reason to think that forming militias is necessary to protect themselves and their country. And the average joe who thought this independence talk was a bit too much might start thinking twice.

The only way to defuse the situation would be to hold a proper referendum in the first place, not go around using the law to try and shout people out of trying it, then force the local police to put a stop to it.

Calling in paramilitary police to prevent the thing from going ahead is stupid.

If you want to prevent secession, maybe using military force to tell people "you're not allowed to consider it!" is not the way to convince them.

Has there been any retaliatory or self-defense violence yet? Any Castilian police injured or killed?

And Catalan might be poised to declare independence unilaterally. It'll be interesting to see who sides with Spain immediately after this fiasco.

Rajoy's government are pathetic cowards. But then I should not expect anything else from right-wingers. Authoritarian at the core, every last one of them.

And the EU just stands by and watches. Piece of institutional garbage that it is.