Lindsay Ellis

I'll go watch the English version sometime soon, then.

I never understood the complaint for Shrek's "pop culture references" because as a person who wasn't into most of American's pop culture stuff, I found the films funny. See, that's the thing - people assume having pop culture references = bad (and I find it really stupid personally - when people claim movies like Over the Hedge is "filled with it", because you know, the setting is a fucking suburbia). I feel like many people who like certain cartoons (e.g. Looney Tunes) wouldn't realize the media they consume are filled with them, that they're just "critical" now is because they recognize them.

Hell, certain scenes in Kung Fu Panda are lifted from certain chinese films yet no one bats at them for being references.

Edited by Ookamikun on May 21st 2019 at 8:50:14 PM

I personally can't imagine Genie without Richard Darbois's voice, but to each their own I suppose. I honestly find the Dutch one really great though.

The thing is, most of Shrek's references are to fairy tales or classic Disney movies, so they have little chance of becoming dated any time soon.

Edited by Lyendith on May 21st 2019 at 3:00:43 PM

Really? REALLY? COPS...ERRRR Knights?

Knowing now that Genie was voiced by a comedian, that "Applause" sign becomes THAT much funnier.

Supposedly, the producer at the time demanded that the song got a proper finale. The storyboarders had no idea how to do that, since they were stuck in a mostly featureless cave and the song itself was already recorded. So they threw in the "Applause" sign and called it a day.

I think most people find "Modern Talk and Poo Culture References in animated movies" are somewhat of an inherently bad thing because, well, most of them aren't funny and are just obnoxious, even in settings where both make sense (like taking place in suburbia). Same with Jukebox Musicals and Dance Party Endings.

Look at Chicken Little (another mean-spirited Shrek wannabe) for how bad that can get.

But yeah. Pop Culture references aren't some modern scourge. Fleischer and WB Animation used it to great effect. Betty Boop was a parody of Helen Kane, Bugs Bunny's carrot and "What's Up, Doc?" are a direct lift of Clark Gable's character from "It Happened One Night". Both the character of Betty Boop and Bugs Bunny's catchphrase are still well known and beloved today - even though both are pop cultural products of their time.

In fact, people are more likely to think WB invented the "What's Up, Doc?" catchphrase for Bugs, and rabbits liking carrots became "common knowledge" because of Bugs Bunny.

I think both are good examples of a "pop culture reference" standing the test of time, even when the thing that's being referenced has completely escaped the cultural memory.

I think it's also a matter of degree. A film like Scary Movie, which is nothing BUT pop culture and of-the-moment references, has aged even worse than the likes of Shrek.

I mentioned that in my previous post using Shrek 2 and Robin Williams Genie as examples.

IE, the bulk of the comedy in those films doesn't overwhelm the production, and many of the jokes that ARE references work without the cultural context of what they're referencing because they were cleverly constructed to have meaning outside of "haha i understand that reference" (like the "Sir Justin" poster in Shrek 2)

Yeah, a film like the "[X] Movies" are gonna age horribly because they're nothing but pop cultural where the joke is "hey! a thing you (might) know!" with nothing more to the joke.

Edited by PippingFool on May 22nd 2019 at 12:21:25 AM

Since I grew up with the German version of the Genie, most of the visual references escaped me anyway. A lot of them still do. Which might be part of the reason why I never loved the character all that much. And the German synchron speaker for Robbie Williams always did a really, really good job, so it is not the lack of energy or anything like this, it is just that the jokes don't land.

I think Shrek 2 really does it well because in spite of being practically hollywood, it honestly adds a layer to why Fiona feels like that, and shows how much of a fractured, cynical setting Shrek is. Like there's more to it than "haha it's a reference".

Exactly, just like mentioned above, Sir Justin is a reference to Justin Timberlake at the time (could be taken as justin bieber even ten years ago), but it isnt THE focus of the scene at that point, its a funny background detail that fits the setting and the character.

The Cops spoof isnt just funny because it references the specific show Cops, its funny cos it references Police Procedural Shows as a whole, with their tropes as relating to 1. how the heroes are arrested 2. how their allies at home get to know they are in trouble. You could deffo read deeper into that joke as well, what with the police brutality and its sensationalism. Also the pepper spray being a regular pepper grinder is hilarious

Out of all the "Scary Movies", I think the 3rd one holds up reasonably well, and doesn't really have any then-current pop culture jokes, save for a throwaway line that mentions Tivo (who still uses Tivo?).

what the hell happened to tivo anwyay

TV providers started releasing their own DVRs, so a stand-alone one was no longer necessary.

What do you mean, what happened to it? Tivo is still around. It just has more competition these days.

Right, that sort of built in HDR competition.

Edited by Redmess on May 23rd 2019 at 7:17:46 PM

Ooh, I thought they got obsolete due to streaming service.

Not really, if you still watch regular tv, it is very useful to have such a recorder. Many programs are not available for streaming to begin with. And recording from your tv is free.

Yeah. "A Ti Vo" is just known as "a DVR-box" now. Ti Vo's just one particular brand of it. Ti Vo's had reverse Brand Name Takeover.

Sooo, uh, the video is doing well (over 1.5M views) now, but the comments are... really bad. At least Lindsay seems to be taking it with humor

When You Tube’s algorithm gives you your highest-viewed video ever but brings with it a wave of anti-semitism, misogyny and harassment. (picture of DJ Khaled's Suffering From Success)
I was thinking of doing a video about the Eisner/Katzenberg rivalry but in light of this I’m giving it second thoughts
I feel like a lot of people are missing the point, and bless your innocent hearts for it, but the ish here is that discussing any Jewish public figure (especially in a remotely critical light) gives ammo to anti-semites, who are ballooning in number thanks to You Tube

The anti-semitism directed at Katzenberg reminded me of the Beauty and the Beast remake video, wherein the people were seriously hating on Emma Watson because she "forced her feminist ideology down their throats" (paraphrasing actual comments). Pretty gross how people can twist Lindsay's good-faith criticism into such bile.
One hilarious thing I noticed in the Aladin's video is people keep defending Anastasia/other cartoons Lindsay supposedly "trashed", and others calling out Lindsay for being a "Disney stan". Actual comments:

Dear lord, these people. Linsday should start referring to herself as "Killer Of Childhood"

Expect comments to be disabled soon.

Reminds me of how when someone uploaded Disney's original Three Little Pigs short with the unedited Jewish peddler animation and audio, and the comments section got filled to the brim with antisemitic remarks.

Things like that make me realize maybe withholding films with un-PC material may be for the best.

I don't think this is a problem with Lindsay, it is a problem with Youtube not doing enough to filter out the scum.

And I don't think Lindsay should limit her subjects because of Youtube not doing anything about scum.

Reading youtube is never not a mistake

I will always enjoy Jim Sterlings summation of 'they killed my childhood'.

They cant kill your childhood, unless you are still a child.