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Complaining (alt names crowner 9/30/16): They Just Didnt Care

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Jun 22nd 2016 at 12:44:12 PM

I have to object to moving They Just Didn't Care to Darth Wiki since that won't change the fact that it is attracting such negativity that the rules of this trope are being ignored and uses devolve into complaining. This happened to Wall Banger, which became too toxic evan for Darth Wiki, a move would risk attracting more negativity.

If we don't want to cut it, I recommend that it be made In Universe Examples Only, require citations (like Unfortunate Implications), or be made Trivia (which would also require citation).

supergod Walking the Earth from the big city
Walking the Earth
Jun 22nd 2016 at 12:59:23 PM

I made a few more edits to the page, so that it's clear it's focused on the production side of things, rather than the writing. They're probably artifacts from the old definition that were overlooked.

I don't think it should be In Universe Examples Only (though I'm not opposed to it), but I agree it could work if it stuck to examples where there's documented evidence that the production crew didn't care about how the film turned out. I guess it would make it trivia, and I'm completely fine with that.

If the name is a problem, we could just change it. Otherwise, it could simply be cut, since, as someone already pointed out, the subtropes probably cover everything that needs to be covered.

For we shall slay evil with logic...
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
Jun 22nd 2016 at 1:55:28 PM

Terrible production value and horribleness are completely different. Delicious cheese and terrible production value are almost the same. This is why So Bad Its Horrible looks nothing like They Just Didn't care, but So Bad It's good does.

supergod Walking the Earth from the big city
Walking the Earth
Jun 22nd 2016 at 2:21:05 PM

Don't think So Bad Its Horrible and So Bad, It's Good are really relevant here. They Just Didn't Care doesn't necessarily have to be an example of either. Like, I don't think a comic that goes into print with a missing page is going to get an audience that appreciates it as So Bad, It's Good.

For we shall slay evil with logic...
pokedude10 from Texas, but that should be obvious. Relationship Status: Not war
Jun 22nd 2016 at 6:31:47 PM

I oppose moving it to Darth. That doesn't solve the problem. This trope shouldn't be a complaining free-for-all.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind discarding the whole thing. Even if this is acting as a fly trap of sorts for complaining, it's not really meaningful as a trope. If it's not tropers complaining, it's in-universe or word of god complaining.

Witty saying.
Karxrida Ice Cream Lover from Darkness within Darkness Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
Ice Cream Lover
Jun 22nd 2016 at 7:19:05 PM

I'm agree that dumping this to Darth is a bad idea. However, In-Universe or Word of God complaining is vastly different than the complaining we're trying to avoid. Keeping complaining from those sources doesn't come across as us being vindictive and is just documenting objective stuff.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
Jun 23rd 2016 at 4:51:22 PM

I think I figured out what is really bothering me about this not a trope. It is not one thing. It is one of those "three out of five other tropes occur simultaneously" type tropes. I am happy with no examples.

Proposed crowner: I left "move to darth" in even though I now think it is a terrible idea. Also, there is already another crowner from a previous TRS thread for this not a trope.

Decide the fate of They Just Didn't Care! Excessive misuse.

  • Do nothing
  • Cut
  • No examples
  • In universe examples only
  • Reclassify as trivia and word of god supported examples only
  • Move to darth, as is.
  • Replace with index (cut description and examples and replace with an index on tropes about poor production values)
  • Rename (To Be Decided)

No names have been proposed, but some people have said the name is a pothole magnet.

Edit: Time lord was here.

edited 24th Jun '16 11:12:52 AM by war877

pokedude10 from Texas, but that should be obvious. Relationship Status: Not war
Jun 23rd 2016 at 9:01:31 PM

[up][up] But even then, what we document should be meaningful. That's why PSiC is a big question for many tropes. Word of God examples mean what, and how do that add meaning to the site? And in that case, wouldn't Word of God complaints be Creator Backlash? Same for in-universe, I'm not sure how it would be meaningful outside of characters complaining.

[up]Agree with crowner. The move to darth option should say with or without major editing. Also, rephrase #4 as "in-universe examples only."

Oh, what was the result of that crowner from the previous thread?

edited 23rd Jun '16 9:02:41 PM by pokedude10

Witty saying.
Jun 23rd 2016 at 10:35:30 PM

Creator Backlash is when a creator hates their own work despite its popularity. That doesn't necessarily mean They Just Didn't Care while making it; maybe it's a student film that they put their heart and soul into at the time, but they've learned so much more technique since then that they now consider it an Old Shame.

war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
Jun 23rd 2016 at 10:57:32 PM

[up][up]Past Crowner I am not sure how to interpret those results. Both results are below the standard 2:1 ratio.

I will make both of those changes. But what do you mean with or without major editing?

EDIT: Calling crowner: no consensus to act.

edited 23rd Jun '16 11:06:09 PM by war877

pokedude10 from Texas, but that should be obvious. Relationship Status: Not war
Jun 24th 2016 at 10:07:43 AM

For the move to Darth option, either the page should be moved as is, or should be reclarifed to fit Darth. Whichever you think fits. Maybe both.

[up][up] OK, I can concede that, but how would this trope actually apply in non complaing context that adds meaning to the site? If an actor in a film said the director just didn't care about production quality, how is that meaningful to document? Creator backlash as you described it is meaningful because creators are complaining in spite of popularity.

edited 24th Jun '16 10:33:44 AM by pokedude10

Witty saying.
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
Jun 24th 2016 at 11:17:05 AM

Okay, I made the changes. In light of past failed votes, going with a winner take all style vote on this one seems a good idea. Especially when everyone wanted something to happen last time.

Jul 3rd 2016 at 5:52:12 PM

Bumping this thread. Since discussion seems to have come to a standstill, I think it's about time for a crowner to decide what to do. So far, suggestions have included:

Now, how do we create this crowner, since there's already a defunct crowner there from 2012?

war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
Jul 3rd 2016 at 5:57:26 PM

You just add a 2 on the end. Do you want to make the crowner?

You need to clarify which type of sectionomy.

edited 3rd Jul '16 5:58:29 PM by war877

Jul 4th 2016 at 10:47:00 AM

Didn't realize it was as simple as adding a "2" to the end, ha ha.

Crowner made, hollering to have it hooked.

Since thread consensus seems to be against moving to Darth Wiki with no other changes, I've left that option off, but anyone who still cares to argue for that option is free to add it.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Jul 4th 2016 at 6:52:28 PM

Crowner Hooked

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Arctimon Grin and bear it from Maryland
Grin and bear it
Jul 4th 2016 at 7:02:52 PM

How many of the current examples would stay if it was made Trivia and require Word of God? I would think not many.

My Fanfiction.net Page My DeviantArt Page
Jul 4th 2016 at 8:08:42 PM

Considering that in the wick check I found only one In Universe Example and no Word of God....

edited 4th Jul '16 8:09:40 PM by HighCrate

Karxrida Ice Cream Lover from Darkness within Darkness Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
Ice Cream Lover
Jul 5th 2016 at 12:39:26 AM

Still would better than it is now, I think.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
Jul 5th 2016 at 2:52:11 AM

I am not happy that trivia is winning over in universe examples. I'd be more interested in a show within a show with terrible production values than a real show that the creator admitted had terrible production values.

I also expected to find ‘Til Death on the list. I think it was word of god didn't care in the last season.

Jul 5th 2016 at 3:02:53 AM

An in-universe trope is still possible, it just would have another name. A possible subtrope of Stylistic Suck.

edited 5th Jul '16 3:04:35 AM by Memers

Jul 5th 2016 at 6:29:46 AM

There's nothing saying we couldn't have both Word Of God-supported examples and in-universe examples.

Plenty of tropes admit in-universe examples when there's not enough for a separate in-universe trope.

war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
Jul 5th 2016 at 7:01:28 AM

Oh, well in that case, they both look good to me.

Jul 5th 2016 at 8:21:11 AM

Yet another case where everyone in discussion agrees that the page as it exists needs help, but some silent faction downvotes every option for fixing it. Great.

Ironeye Cutmaster-san from SoCal Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
Jul 5th 2016 at 9:01:27 PM

How do you know there are people voting down all available options?

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

Alternative Titles: They Just Didnt Care
30th Sep '16 7:55:29 PM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.
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