A thread for discussing representation and diversity in all kinds of media. This covers creators and casting decisions as well as characters and in-universe discussions.
Historical works and decisions are in-scope as well, not just recent news.
Please put any spoilers behind tags and clearly state which work(s) they apply to.
This week, producer Ross Putnam started a Twitter account called "femscriptintros
", where he puts up examples of how women are introduced in the screenplays he's read. And nearly all of sound like terrible porn or are too concerned with emphasizing said lady is beautiful despite whatever traits she may have. Here's a Take Two podcast made today where he talks about it.
(Edited April 19 2024 to add mod pinned post)
Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 19th 2024 at 11:45:51 AM
She/her
Whiteness as a concept has changed over time. It’s unlikely that any English-descended colonist in 1750 would have said that the Irish were as low/subhuman as Black people. The social strata placed Irish immigrants below English immigrants, but definitely above Black people.
The concept of whiteness expanded to protect its own power. By 1900, Irish and Scots and other Scandinavian and Western European immigrants had been mostly assimilated. Italians were assimilated into whiteness a little later. The existence of anti-Italian, anti-Polish etc discrimination was simultaneous with that time period, but decreased while discrimination against Black people (and Native Americans and Latinos and Asians) continued or worsened.
And that's why the notion of "human races" makes no sense. If you take, say, Northern Africa at the time of Ancient Egypt or Ancient Rome, people of various skin tones routinely interacted and mingled − any distinction was based on cultural differences, not physical appearance. From what I understand the division in "races" more or less started with colonization in the 15-ish century, but even then it was mostly an excuse to rationalize violent domination.
Edited by Lyendith on Feb 16th 2019 at 9:45:20 PM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yep. For most of Europe's history, black people were just considered rare and exotic. If they were looked down on, it was because "You're not from our culture, that means you'll never be as good as us" rather than "your skin is the wrong color, you are inhuman." Shakespeare's Othello demonstrated a lot of that type of cultural posturing.
On the other hand, people from nearby nations were the enemies you had been fighting for generations, and any random peasant would have a hundred very specific reasons to hate anyone from any given country.
Edited by Discar on Feb 16th 2019 at 1:01:30 AM
Pose, featuring multiple trans characters of color, played by trans actors of color, was not nominated for anything at the NAACP awards.
Advancement of Cisgender Colored People?
Pop Culture Detective has a new video, "Sexual Assault of Men Played for Laughs", thoroughly examining the societal inclination to not take it seriously.
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 16th 2019 at 1:21:39 AM
She/her
Yeah, I really hate those jokes. Even B99 does it sometimes, which really bothers me.
I think they've gotten better since the Terry Crews thing came to light, at least.
Yeeaaah, that's awfully common… and not just in fiction, sadly. I've seen a story about a man raped by women relegated to the "funny little stories" section of a newspaper, the one where they talk about a guy who married a tree or a sleepwalking dog. Because that's just hilarious.
And the video's also right to point out that stupid "breaking taboos" argument. It's the same excuse used by racists to make fun of already oppressed minorities while blaming "oppressive PC culture" when they're called out for it.
Edited by Lyendith on Feb 16th 2019 at 11:11:47 AM
The Unknown Unknown
This.
And it's still ongoing too. Encountered a very recent example, but it's not film or live-TV (it's mobile gaming) so I won't discuss it here.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
I can't remember what show it was, one of those legal dramas, where in one episode, a man tries to press charges against a woman for sexual assault, but he screws it up by letting on that he enjoyed it. As a result, he is immediately dismissed by the main characters.
Edited by Brandon on Feb 16th 2019 at 2:53:53 AM
With all the memes about women choosing a bear over a man, Hollywood might wanna get on an 'East of the Sun and West of the Moon' adaptation
Shin Megami Tensei IV
@erazor: We discuss non film and TV media all the time. Go for it.
Watch me destroying my country
"The social strata placed Irish immigrants below English immigrants, but definitely above Black people."
While this is kinda true, their treatment at times make the diferent pointless.
And yes, you can tell, the title is a bit of artifact and misleading, this have bebecome Diversity and Representation in media.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
She/her
No one was kidnapping Irish people, shipping them down South and selling them. Generations of Irish people didn’t grow up being raped and tortured on plantations.
It’s not a pointless difference, and to suggest so is incredibly ignorant and offensive.
Edited by wisewillow on Feb 16th 2019 at 7:15:35 AM
Brenner's Wolves Fight Again
No one went to war to defend the right to own Irish people.
Where there's life, there's hope.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
To be Fair, he said at times.
Thought Irish people really suffered a deal. I feel bad for them, their historical oporession is always used to justify and downplay racial bigotry.
I feel interesed on cases like that, Eastern Europe too, Poles are victims of the Holocaust but as how they're portrayed sometimes, you would believe they were a Always Lawful Evil nation that always happily give jews to the Nazis, Asshole Victim, the nation.
Seriously. That's fucked up.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Feb 16th 2019 at 8:08:15 AM
Watch me destroying my country
That's the first time I've heard about that. When we were taught about WWII it was pretty ordinary for them to point out that Poland was the first country invaded and that the Gypsies/Roma and Poles were targeted during the Holocaust. Nothing about them willfully selling out. Maybe it's different in the US versus Peru.
Edited by AlleyOop on Feb 16th 2019 at 8:40:27 AM
vicarious
@erazor: GO, man?
NA decison was the right call
I guess they’ll also censor Abby but they didn’t do Jack for some reason?
^oh
Oh shit
Edited by vicarious on Feb 16th 2019 at 9:18:09 AM
Tweaked the title per some recent confusion.
If it was a hoax, it cannot be overstressed how much damage he's done for real victims.
Just...unimaginably reckless and stupid.
She/her
So:
1) I don’t trust Chicago PD. See: Laquan Mc Donald.
2) The hoax rumor is currently just that- a rumor. We should avoid reporting speculation as fact.
The Chicago police already said yesterday that there is no evidence that the attack was faked. They interviewed two suspects earlier, but both were cleared today.
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 16th 2019 at 6:32:44 AM
vicarious
No one here was though?
All the link is that police say and think they have evidence that it might be a hoax
I’m just waiting to see what will happen in the future.
I’m certainly hoping this is not a hoax
well, I’m wrong so that’s good
Edited by vicarious on Feb 16th 2019 at 9:35:48 AM
"White" is kind of a weird term, since it's not really about race or nationality. Hell, until relatively recently it wasn't even about skin color. Irish people weren't considered white even though they're pretty damn pale.
I don't know where I'm going with this. But "white" is mostly about perception rather than actual specific percentages of your heritage.