Diversity and Representation in Media

Netflix’s Blackface Algorithm Is White Nonsense, Condensed by Michael Harriot.

Edited by windleopard on Oct 25th 2018 at 3:47:28 AM

That's called "queerbaiting" when you do it for a gay audience.

You gotta wonder what chucklefuck came up with that idea at the board meeting.

Some guy who wants to "own the SJ Ws."

Or just a really unscrupulous marketing director trying to reel in black audiences without going out of their way to actually get good shows with black characters.

Has anyone watched hotdiggedydemon's video on "The Problem With Apu"? (spoiler: he's a white guy who thinks Kondabolu is overreacting) I am hearing mixed reviews about it.

Yeah,I saw his video,his main point is that since Apu is a portrayed in a positive manner and not derogatory his voice being done by a white guy isn't a major issue

Probably does a have point somewhere along those lines,though how the show runners handled the criticism was just lame

Edited by Ultimatum on Oct 25th 2018 at 9:09:48 AM

Doesn’t seem like an improvement. If Apu were a positive character, then it’d be just as necessary to have him be voiced by an Indian actor. It shouldn’t be that they should only voice the negative experiences.

They might have said "We didn't know better at the time"

They might have said "He's been played by this actor this whole time and we can't just get rid of him now"

They might have said "We will strive to be better in future".

Their response was underwhelming to say the least

I'm not too sure about statement number two being a better option. After all, Apu is far from the only role Hank Azaria plays on the show so it's not like recasting the character will put him out of a job.

Question: Is his accent bad? (not being a native speaker I have zero ear for this).

Because in general I never bought into the notion that voice actors have look a specific way to play a specific character, it is always about the question how they sound like. So, if his accent sounds really fake and offensive...yeah, maybe time to look for a replacement. If it doesn't...frankly, then I would be more concerned about the way Apu is written than about his voice actor.

Edited by Swanpride on Oct 25th 2018 at 5:21:50 AM

It sounds very obviously fake, yes. It’s basically the Trope Codifier for fake Indian accents in American media, so tons of works pull from it in imitation of an imitation, distorting it even more.

I also don’t see the value in listening to Hotdiggedydemon as a spokesperson on how to depict race, given his own uses of tasteless race jokes in his own videos. Like the Pony.mov ones and their “Lol, suffering Mexicans in sweatshops!”

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Oct 25th 2018 at 5:50:03 AM

Generally, if a white person is claiming a member of a minority pointing out problems with representation of said minority is "overreacting", I'm gonna take it with a grain of salt. Particularly if, as mentioned, said white person also has their own history of doing or saying racially problematic things.

It's the same kind of mindset that leads to someone like Megyn Kelly asking what's wrong with people wearing blackface on Halloween.

Edited by M84 on Oct 25th 2018 at 10:12:57 PM

I remember Hari Kondabolu's doc actually discussed the accent and pointed out that Apu's voice is based on an impression of Peter Sellers doing one, which Hari pointed out is akin to a white guy doing an impression of a white guy doing an impression of an Indian. So it definitely doesn't have a basis in realism to begin with. I've also seen it pointed out when people bring up other stereotypical characters that Apu is one of the ones to not have any involvement from the actual source. While he's not the only one (Luigi, Bumbleeman to name a couple), a lot of the other national stereotype characters are of white people like Willie and the various Italians like Luigi and Fat Tony, ones that are considered white and thus are not subject to prejudice like South Asians are. Plus, Fat Tony is voiced by an actual Italian and Krusty's dad is voiced by a Jewish man, so in those cases they have actual involvement from the people being made fun of. In Bumblebeeman's case, he's more based on a certain type of Spanish sitcom, which isn't quite the same as making fun of a culture like Apu does.

Plus, you can actually still make fun of a minority's cultural stereotype while also giving them good representation so long as a character's actually played by a member of said minority and contributes to the greater plot beyond being the butt of comic relief.

Regarding Indians, the best example nowadays is Dopinder from the new Deadpool films. He's a stereotypical taxi cab driver who serves as the titular mercenary's go-to form of transportation on missions hilariously beyond the driver's depth. He essentially serves as an Audience Surrogate as he responds to the absurd and ridiculous antics typical in superhero flicks.

Edited by FluffyMcChicken on Oct 25th 2018 at 7:38:06 AM

Actually....I found Dopinder super insulting.

Yeah, hotdiggetydemon is a good animator and all but he's always been one of those edgy white guys who gets off on being "politically incorrect", so I think his opinion on the matter is pretty irrelevant. Not to mention that it's kind of a bad look to lecture a community you're not a part of about its own issues.

Luis of Ant-Man is an example I can point to of an actor of the appropriate minority doing a lot to make a stereotypical character their own. There's a reason why the "Luis stories" caught on so well and were brought back for the sequel.

Luis is so...bizarre.

Like, Yeah, the latino criminal, but he's heroic, yet playing second fiddle at best to a white criminal (sorry for the saltyness I'm latino and seeing more latino criminals in fiction just bothers me).

But the actor really does it's best to avoid stereotypes about latino criminals.

Is more of less the situation with the Arab Terrorist in Iron Man. He's a stereotype but it's actor makes it genuine and interesting.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Oct 25th 2018 at 10:12:48 AM

The second movie has a subplot about Luis and the other sidekicks trying to start a legitimate business as security consultants. So they're not criminals anymore.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Oct 25th 2018 at 8:24:07 AM

I approve of that

Wait, is Luis' tendency to tell long-winded stories actually part of a cultural stereotype?

Not one that I or my family is familiar with, as far as I know.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Oct 25th 2018 at 9:01:27 AM

Ah, I think I may have misread your initial post and mistakenly thought you connected his stereotypical character of telling long-winded stories to his ethnic background.