Needs Help: Critical Hit

I'd forgotten about that. IIRC the message for hitting it perfect is usually just "Perfect!"...

Maybe a broader trope called Perfect Timing Bonus, which would also include things like "perfect guards" and getting a higher score in a Rhythm Game.

edited 6th Aug '15 2:12:19 PM by Prime32

Critical hit is not unique to just RP Gs and pen and paper, its something that has spread across pretty much every genre like most other RPG mechanics.

Critical Guarding is also very much a thing, its even called that in most games.

edited 6th Aug '15 2:49:36 PM by Memers

So, basically, the new definition you guys propose for Critical Hit is "damage that's bigger than normal damage"?

No, as I said in the first post the proposed definition is:

A hit in a game that does more damage than usual by fulfilling a special condition.

The last bit there is important. That condition can be a random number pulled. It can be using the right elemental weakness. It can be timing the hit right. It can be hitting just the right bit of the target. The bit about the fulfilling a special condition is key though.

edited 6th Aug '15 6:07:49 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

I'm not seeing the difference. "Fulfilling a special condition" is pretty vague. Can you give me some examples that would fit Rjinswand's definition but not yours?

The biggest reason for that condition is to deter ZC Es. It forces tropers to explain how the work defines criticals instead of just saying "Some hits do more damage than others."

Part of the reason I became a mod is that I have a fair bit of experience tweaking definitions to get the best sort of troper responses.

That said, an example that wouldn't fit would be a smooth random damage curve, where some hits are bigger than others, but there's no critical spike.

edited 6th Aug '15 7:13:25 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Yeah some skills are balanced to do more damage than others due to costing more mana, have a special effect, or having a CD placed on them. Those are not this.

@tbarrie, if a weapon does 2d6 damage, you roll double sixes, and the hit does 12 damage, that's higher than normal (7 damage), but it's not a critical hit. If a weapon does 2d6 damage, you roll double sixes, and the hit does 24 damage because you rolled double sixes, that's a critical hit.

If a fireball does 20 damage at a cost of 10 mana, but you can dump 20 mana into the spell to get 30 damage, that's not a critical hit (it's some trope about an overcharged attack or something). If a fireball does 20 damage at a cost of 10 mana, but does 30 damage if cast against an ice-elemental opponent, that is a critical hit.

@29 & 31: Thanks, I understand now.

I would say that 'Mana to cast time to damage ratios' would be a trope in of itself but in of itself it is not a critical hit mechanic.

In video games, there's often a visual indicator like a flashier hit animation (or the screen briefly flashes), or maybe differently colored or styled damage numbers.

I'm not sure if "always crits if you do X" necessarily counts though, because mechanically that's just "raise the crit rate to 100% when X", and then I think you run into weird borderline situations where the crit rate is increased absurdly to 90% or something but still isn't guaranteed. I mean, it's worth noting in the description, but having it be an entirely separate page seems to me like it would invite misuse and confusion.

Frankly, "you can crit more often than you hit normally" is sort of a weird variation that's popped up pretty often recently.

edited 13th Aug '15 2:27:59 PM by Clarste

Positional and conditional Critical Hits like "Delivers an attack with a potency of 150. Opo-opo Form Bonus: Critical damage if dealt from behind target. " are very much a trope in of itself, they are different for just positional deal extra damage it is literally a crit and can not crit again.

Any 'deal extra damage' effect will still have a chance to crit in addition to the bonus damage. Its one of those balance mechanics to really prevent huge amounts of Burst damage especially in pvp.

A Double Critical Hit is also a thing, primarily in dice games and old computer games, where one hit can crit twice for quad-damage if the dice are in your favor. Also known as stacking crits as you crit your crit. I dont know of any video game that uses this that wasn't made before 95.

edited 13th Aug '15 3:02:55 PM by Memers

There's the Lethality/Silencer ability from Fire Emblem. Up to 2005 it gave every Critical Hit a 50% chance of becoming a One-Hit Kill. In more recent games it has a low chance of activation on any attack, and crits don't interact with it.

Suikoden 5 has literal double crits, in that you hit in the enemy and the words "double crit" pop up on the screen.

edited 18th Aug '15 5:03:24 AM by Clarste

IMO if some game is calling a non-random damage boost mechanic "critical hit," that's Call a Hit Point a "Smeerp".

The Smeerp has taken over so that its calling 'a Smeerp a rabbit' but no term existed for the rabbit before it.

Also the big thing about how it uses critical hit mechanics as balance makes it way different. A non-random critical hit uses the same formula as a random critical hit, the same + damage percentage (100% in World Of Warcraft and 50% in FFXIV for example.). And a Non Random Critical Hit can not cause a random critical hit on top of it as it was already a Critical Hit, limiting burst damage, as opposed to say + 100% damage hit that can Crit and cause 400% damage.

edited 18th Aug '15 8:18:21 AM by Memers

Increasing the crit rate to 100% is increasing the crit rate to 100%. I don't see why it matters whether it's because of positioning or a buff or whatever, it's still just a crit rate that happens to be 100%. I don't think it needs a trope separate from "crit rate can be increased".

Edit: I totally understand your point about how choosing to increase crit rates instead of base damage is a meaningful design decision, but I don't see why that makes it a separate trope.

edited 18th Aug '15 10:44:33 AM by Clarste

Sure, I've seen plenty of RP Gs that have some special attack that always crits. But then those RP Gs all have a random critical hit mechanic already and the special attacks just increase the chance of triggering it to 100%.

That is a trope in of itself though.

Anyway to hurry this along I propose we do this

• Critial Hit: The broader definitons of critical hit that everyone uses
  • Random Critical Hit: When Random Number God is on your side you will do a critical hit and do 50 to 100% additional damage.
  • Conditional Critical Hit: skills and abilities or even normal attacks have an increased or 100% chance to critical hit when a set condition has been met. This includes backstabbing or hitting while stunned. These can not Random Critical Hit as a matter of balance.
    • Weakpoint Critical Hit: Completely skill based you hit their weakpoint you crit, related to Attack Its Weakpoint also Groin Attack and other weakpoint tropes. This one would also include Headshot Critical Hit, I think, which is another trope that was decided on splitting.

Double Critical Hit and Increased Critical Hit Damage and such can wait till later.

edited 20th Aug '15 1:08:24 AM by Memers

I wouldn't have a set damage bonus in the definition, as some games let you increase the bonus through feats/unlocks or just have higher/lower bonus damage.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

That would be another trope actually I think, I know World Of Warcraft had enchants that increased critical hit damage by 3%. I just put 50% to 100% because those are the most common places crits start at.

edited 20th Aug '15 1:07:20 AM by Memers

I don't think Weakpoint Critical Hit should use "critical hit" in the title. The name "Critical Hit" is associated enough with the Random Crits trope that it risks being confusing. Also, I really do think We Have That One Already.

edited 20th Aug '15 1:13:18 AM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."

We do not.

People think it's Attack Its Weakpoint but, as we have gone on length here, that is not what that trope is as Attack Its Weakpoint is when you can only attack it's weakpoint to do anything more than Scratch Damage.

Attack Its Weakpoint's misuse is massive even on its own page.

edited 20th Aug '15 1:21:08 AM by Memers

Attack Its Weakpoint has a really unfortunate name. But I guess that's for a different TRS thread.

Oh very much agreed, I would make a thread on that but can not do so right now. The misuse is very clear on that one without even a wick check and does need a cleanup anyway.