John Wick

A little bit late, but:

A travesty.

Because Jesus Christ, enough of this whole "universe" thing already.

3 and 4 I think make it clear the rules were designed to keep the people in power in power and the below them in check.

You know...arguably like all rules.

Again, that sounds more like an Avengers movie, or some idealistic equivalent against what I think the films showed the setting to be like, asking the films to be something else. The 3rd ended and the 4th began with John starting a "revolution"... he legit in the first 30 minutes goes to the desert and kills the highest-seated leader in the entire organization in 5 minutes when he spent most of the previous film just earning passage to meet with him.

Then afterward with Koji he's asked what he plans to do and John has no good answer. That's the point. Revolution wasn't going to happen. John's an anomaly, not a martyr.

If they ended on 3, sure maybe. Where they went with 4, nah, that definitely wasn't going to happen.

And this, exactly.

I love a good shared universe when there's precedent for it. I wouldn't mind a few spin-offs, maybe short films, but I really don't want John Wick to continue as "from the world of John Wick" for the foreseeable future.

Its a great story on its own and the setting works because you don't want to think about it too hard - how does a currency based on gold coins work economically, how does anybody get anything done in an assassination economy, what good are the police when the mob buys them off, how does government work when a Continental owner feared that John Wick was here to assassinate the freaking Pope. Its got incredible intrigue and gaps that make each chapter interesting, but you don't want to dilute that further and further with too much exploration into it.

Ballerina? Fine.

A Nobody film? Ok.

Contintental about Winston and some other new guy? I didn't really want or need a period piece prequel about the NY Continental but at least there's a thread to John Wick's storyline.

Please stop there.

I honestly don't even want Chapter 5 because its bound to make the sacrifices and action in Ch 4 irrelevant. Let the franchise go on a high note.

Edited by FOFD on Aug 16th 2023 at 4:42:18 AM

There’s never been a revolution that consisted solely of killing one guy. John’s effort wasn’t futile, it was incomplete. Winston even directly spurs the Marquis into dueling John by stoking his fear of revolution, which is acknowledgment that it is possible.

I would describe a setting where hired guns can be convinced out of a multimillion payday by saving their dog as not completely divorced from idealism.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Aug 16th 2023 at 12:14:36 PM

Well yeah. Santino abusing the rules to get what he wants is probably nothing new for anyone on the High Table—Gianna not being surprised when he forced John to go kill her and accepting it upon realizing that was the case speaks to that certainly. The rules clearly didn't plan for someone like John so blatantly violating them too—and eventually circumventing them to get out of their grasp as well.

Well the moment the interest in new editions to the series burns out, it'll stop. We'll see when that happens.

Was Nobody in the same universe? It was Universal and not Lionsgate, so I doubt it.

It's a character in Chapter 4, not the Odenkirk film Nobody.

The thing about a lot of Worldbuilding is that too many stories end up going down the path of setting up a fantastic world and then have that world in ruins at the end because something at its core is challenged. Anything beyond what the movie did in challenging the status quo would be a disappointment because it makes that world more like the real world. The Continental, Gold Coins, describing armor and weapons like you're a sommelier describing the finest wine in the world, all of that would be over once the credits roll.

The police don't interfere in organized crime business is actually pretty accurate in large parts of the world.

The fact that it comes down to John following one of the rules and beating them at their own game is not something to take lightly either.

The first episode of The Continental is up! Very good, I thought.

Gonna wait until all three air to enjoy it in full. Maybe wait until the next time I see a friend I forgot I wanted to watch the movies with for the first time. That way, I can make it up to him.

Are you sure you going to watch the whole series in one day? Because the first episode is an hour and a half as I find out.

Oh boy I sure to love cashing in on the cultural cache of Keanu Reeves to try and make yet another goddamn Mel Gibson vehicle.

Even if I don't finish the show in one day, I won't get stuck waiting week after week if that's the release strategy they're using.

He's probably not the one people are watching the show for though.

I'm debating watching it for Katie McGrath. Who is on my list for World's Most Beautiful Woman (which is more personal charisma than a strict loveliness thing) but someone I always want to see more of.

I like the idea of seeing where everyone started out in this world. That said, she is a very pretty woman.

"There’s never been a revolution that consisted solely of killing one guy. John’s effort wasn’t futile, it was incomplete. Winston even directly spurs the Marquis into dueling John by stoking his fear of revolution, which is acknowledgment that it is possible.

I would describe a setting where hired guns can be convinced out of a multimillion payday by saving their dog as not completely divorced from idealism. "

Sure but is individual idealism, the franchise was about very much John and his strugle to fit him and the question if he really have a life back and even more after he broke a sacred cardinal rule, is already silly how he kill the guy in the desert 5 minutes afterwards when the previous movie build his presence so much.

And more important, revolution of what? John broke the continental, one of the rule that mantain assasins for eating each other after a contract he have to do because a blood oath, as arbitrary it sound it better than shoot each other.

And finally it will make very much John into a "good guy" against a super evil organization which I think it will be too much.

Also as a wick universe....what I can said, I want it, probably because the chararter and universe the way it move, sound intersting on their own.

While I haven't see The Continental at all yet, just the concept on its own is fascinating enough to get its own movie so there you go.

It wasn't nothing. Santino manipulated the rules to get his own sister killed and get himself into a strong position of power while arranging that John be killed to tie up a loose end while claiming he's avenging said sister. John killing him while it violated the rules got rid of someone who didn't actually respect the spirit of the rules and had no true honor either.

For these guys, "rules" are just "guidelines to exploit".

Exactly. That they didn't have a problem with Santino circumventing the rules to get what he wanted, but did have one with John killing him in the Continental to make him answer for it? It's BS.

Had John managed to kill him outside, they probably would've still had a problem with it, but he wouldn't have broken the biggest rule of them all while doing so.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Sep 26th 2023 at 6:30:02 AM

Also see this clip as proof:

See, killing someone in the Continental by directly shooting them is not okay. But killing them by threatening them into suicide? A-okay.

I mean, it's antihero versus worse people.

Besides, two movies made it clear the High Table is completely without redeeming qualities.

Yeah, look no further than how the High Table decided to deal with the Bowery King helping John by merely giving him a gun. They killed a good chunk of his guys and mutilated him in a way that he could have very well died if he wasn't so lucky. The line into disproportionate retribution got surpassed early.

Edited by Weirdguy149 on Sep 26th 2023 at 1:03:48 PM

The thing with Santino, and much of the setting, is that there are obvious moral standards but that is different from the rules and ceremony of everything surrounding the High Table. Santino having his sister assassinated is morally abhorrent but he did so within the rules. He doesn't actually respect the rules but just as a means to an end, evident when Winston insisted he resolve the marker even though he anticipated John's death.

I've actually proposed a trope a few times about characters obsessed with the rules to an absurd level. Kind of like The Simpsons episode "Lisa's Wedding" where Marge had a court order to keep Homer away from planning the wedding, and his response was "These all look in order."

This is just my Alternate Character Interpretation but my take on the High Table is that they claim to be all about honor and Even Evil Has Standards.

But..it's not.

It's like the mafia claiming they have a code and are a big giant family.

The rules only exist to protect their power and they engage in Loophole Abuse whenever they want because the whole thing is just a giant scam on people like John.

Granted we didn't know her beyond John coming to her and her figuring out why, but Gianna seemed like a more than reasonable person. She clearly respected him. She also didn't take it personally against him either.

That could either speak to her thinking of how despicable her brother was for setting her up or that she thought so highly of the rules she was willing to accept her fate even if begrudgingly. Either way, it's beyond fascinating.