My Hero Academia

It's obviously designed to sound very dramatic beforehand, but in hindsight it still makes sense though. It was a pretty big change for Spinner too, and it would be hard for him to see the new organization as the "league" since it's no longer their little band but a massive organization

Apropos of nothing, I took notice of Destro's hair color in Gentle's video. I noticed it because it looks similar to how Re-Destro's was colored on the back cover of Volume 24, I think it was.

Except Destro and Re-Destro don't seem like they're intended to have the same hair color, going off of how Horikoshi made them. So that strikes me as an anime change. Still doesn't tell us what Horikoshi had in mind, and not that important, but I always take notice of when the anime does things like that.

I mean...most of the non-conflict interactions we see between them when they were young are Izuku following Bakugo around and telling him how great he is, while Bakugo is the most part or putting him down or just reaffirming the admiration.

Bakugo started calling him “Deku” (friends don’t give friends nicknames like “useless puppet”) when they were 5, told Izuku that he’d never be as great as him, and beat him up when he tried to defend another kid from him. The reason he started disliking Izuku more was because he tried to help him. Sure, they had moments of admiring All Might together, but that’s hardly evidence of legitimate friendship.

Yes, it got worse in their teenage years and there’s a gap in what we know of their relationship, but the story never shows us that they were close before that.

Izuku admired Bakugo and wanted to be like him. Bakugo treated Izuku like he was insignificant, until he said or did something that pissed him off; then he became a target. Bakugo slowly develops mire respect and understanding for Izuku as the story goes on, but they weren’t really buddies from the jump.

Edited by ILikeRobots on Feb 25th 2020 at 6:23:11 AM

As someone who currently works in school around Kindergarteners, this is definitely false.

Kids mean nicknames are always the easiest pun on the kid's name, which is definitely the case for Izuku/Deku. The fact he was quirkless was just a nice bonus.

Kids Are Cruel, yeah, but that doesn’t disprove the point.

Plus it’s a nickname Bakugo kept using long past their kindergarten days. Izuku reclaimed it and saw a different meaning eventually, but Bakugo was still using it to put Izuku down.

Their relationship soured after Bakugo believed Deku was looking down on him for helping him.

They were "friends" in the sense most children were. They shared interests and hung out together, but Bakugo saw Deku as beneath him and just part of his group and Deku looked up to Bakugo for having such a great Quirk.

Maybe your definition of “friend” is more generous than mine.

Kids who aren’t really friends often hang out because of proximity and common interests, but if your “friend” is using you to boost themselves up, gets upset when you try to help them, tends to insult and threaten or even assault you...you need to re-evaluate your definition of friend. It makes sense for Izu to continue hanging on, since essentially all of his peers looked down on him for being Quirkless and he really wanted to emulate Bakugo’s confidence and strong personality, but saying they had a genuine friendship feels...eh.

Like, young Mirio and Amajiki were friends, who encouraged and supported and were fond of each other. Young Bakugo and Izuku lives close together and played together, but their relationship was one of admiration and meekness from Izu’s side and either apathy or meanness from Bakugo’s side.

Dude, they're fucking children, they could barely spell the words out of their mouth at 5.

When you're that age, anyone you hang out with is a "friend".

can confirm. when I was 4 I thought the neighbour who was at least 6 years older than me was my friend, because she was nearby and would be nice to me. In hindsight, she was just being nice to a baby, and that could hardly be called friendship.

x2 You realize I’m talking from an analytical perspective and not just a “5 year old says it’s a friendship” perspective?

I brought up their childhood because nothing in-series demonstrates that they had a genuinely good friendship. A character can say something; doesn’t mean it’s true when the series itself doesn’t support it.

My first post on this was about 15-year-old Izuku, long past when they’re in the “5-year-old everything is a friendship” stage. I was saying that it seemed weird, but I thought it was justified for Izuku to call it a childhood friendship in-character because of his meek personality, him being isolated and bullied, etc., but from an outside perspective, it’s not. Plus the fact that the word he used apparently doesn’t even mean friendship specifically, but acquaintanceship, which is a much better descriptor.

Anyways, moving on.

Edited by ILikeRobots on Feb 25th 2020 at 9:17:56 AM

That is patently false. They are shown hanging out together repeatedly without any implication of an imbalance. Watching All Might fight on TV, buying cards, running through the forest. The evidence that they were friends is there. Between the age of about 5 or 6, and between 14 is a giant gaping hole where the status of their relationship is ambiguous, but Izuku simply says he "went down the path of bad", suggesting their relationship soured over time and didn't just become bad overnight.

The worst a friend ever did to me was punch me in the face. We're still friends.

Edited by devak on Feb 25th 2020 at 6:42:41 PM

I’m not saying all of their interactions were negative or that they never had moments of getting along. I’m not saying that Izu has no reason to refer to Bakugo as a childhood friend in-universe. They did hang out and share interests, you’re right about that. And kids who fight or argue can still be friends, I’m not denying that either. Izu has enough fond memories of Bakugo to still call him by a cute nickname. Yes, Bakugo’s attitude did get worse the older the two got from what we are told.

I’m saying that from an outside perspective, that I’m iffy on if the moments we see them getting along outweigh Bakugo’s general attitude of indifference or superiority, or his moments of bullying toward Izuku that are emphasized by the story to call what they had a genuine friendship (out of universe).

Izuku is the kind of person who has trouble standing up for himself and doesn’t really see his own value; he wouldn’t really see the issue with the relationship, notwithstanding his youth and how teens and kids can’t really identify those relationships very well. I’ve called lots of people “friends” from middle and high school, when looking back they definitely weren’t. Now I’m an adult with the benefit of being outside the situation, so I’m always going to see things I at that age and Izuku as a character wouldn’t.

Edited by ILikeRobots on Feb 25th 2020 at 9:59:08 AM

So Pop's gotten caught in a bee hive. That sucks.

Seriously, who's behind the Trigger incidents, its gotta be a character in canon at this point.

Fair enough. It's because Horikoshi primarily reveals the important points in their relation, and not much else. Even the moments of friendship we get are primarily through the lens of significant moments. Bakugo admiring All Might for instance. Very little of their actual relation prior to UA is relevant. Everything is seen from the perspective of now, and what made their current relation the way it is, and not the relationship that was lost.

In principle it's enough that horikoshi says "Well they were friends, and this is how it changed", but it seems many people judge relations based on relative screentime (ie the Good:Bad ratio) even though it's not necessarily relevant to their relationship.

After all, the manga does not so much concern itself with *rebuilding* the relationship, but rather on building an entirely new one. One where Izuku does have power, more than Bakugo even. The moment Izuku got OFA is essentially the moment their prior dynamic became obsolete, and so rather than massively developing a relationship that no longer exists, Horikoshi focuses on the new relation being built.

Good points. Of course what’s shown on-screen will always have more impact and be of more use in analysis than what we are told or what remains ambiguous, but The Law of Conservation of Detail does exist, that much is true.

I’m not trying to dwell in the past or the old relationship, since Izuku doesn’t and it is pointless from a present-day story perspective. Izuku’s gaining more confidence and respect for himself, while Bakugo is forced to acknowledge Izuku as someone worthy of respect, and realize that his bad attitude is hindering him. Horikoshi does a good job showing the issues inherent in both of them. All Might is right when he says they both need to change, and that they’ll be a force to be reckoned with once they get around to genuinely supporting one another. I like that the solution is a middle road between both.

They’re a great pair of foils, more interestingly written than any other rival pair I’ve personally seen, and it’s why I think the Battle Trial arc and the confrontation between Izuku and Bakugo is still so good. It’s still one of my favorite moments of the earlier arcs, and iconic of Izu’s development.

I’m interested to see where they go, even if their start was rocky to say the least.

Regarding "there were dire consequences from the Stain event": ... weren't there? I always really interpreted that as the fact that Stain wound up martyred and inspired a new generation of villains who hooked up with the League of Villains. The Vanguard Action Squad is basically made up of those influenced by Stain in one way or another or hooked up with the League of Villains because of publicity from him.

I've always thought that too.

Yeah but that isn't a consequence of Iida getting involved.

Unless the correct move was for him not to get involved so Stain wouldn't be captured which is... not at all better.

What exactly does the narration says? I'm only going by my recollection, which is colored by my interpretation at the time.

I mean, Endeavor was in the city. While Native would probably be dead, Stain would probably be caught considering the odds he'd go after Endeavor is roughly 8000%.

Edited by Larkmarn on Feb 25th 2020 at 4:14:21 AM

I mean, everything that happened is ultimately a consequence of Iida getting involved. From the good (saving Native), to what comes after.

You could probably have a fairly poignant discussion about, with foresight would changing things have been for the better if it meant no League and what comes from them, but also would likely mean that Stain would still be out there killing and crippling heroes, and what a hero would/should do with that knowledge.

But I've never really seen that quandary brought up.

The exact narration goes like this (I have Japanese version so it might be different from official translation):

At this time, I should have talked more strongly to him. I will eventually come to regret this day.

The logical part of my brain and the emotional part of my brain are still in conflict over the aftermath of the Stain incident.

On one hand, regulations are important. In a world where most people have superpowers, requiring a license to hero makes it so that untrained people don’t get hurt or hurt others. On the other hand, they’re heroes. Jumping in to save the day, despite the rules and odds, is kinda what they do. And it did get Stain off the street and save Iida’s life.

I don’t think they should really be blamed for the aftermath and response to Stain, though. They did a good and heroic thing, and had no way to know about the consequences past them acting without licenses. The martyrdom was wholly out of their control.

I honestly don't think Midoriya is even considering the whole Stain going viral thing in his narration. Like I Like Robots said, that was wholly out of their control.

"Eventually I came to regret not talking to him this day because Iida was actually taking his brother's incident way harder than we could imagine, and that lead to him having an outburst in the most unhealthy way possible and I could have prevented all this if I intervened sooner." feels natural, but

"Eventually I came to regret not talking to him this day because Iida's placement and motivation during the workplace experience week lead to Stain's capture going down like it did in this specific way, giving an opportunity for Stain's final stand to go viral and indirectly giving the League of Villains the PR boost they needed." feels... odd. I feel like if this is what he meant he would say it differently. Because the narration feels like he personally feels responsible for whatever regretful thing that happens from this choice, and I don't think Midoriya thinks they were personally responsible for this whole Stain influence thing.

EDIT: I think the sticking point was that they weren't legal heroes even if they were training to be heroes. Actually I think the police might have been stricter to these kids *because* they are hero trainees. They are on track to actually be the superpowered law enforcement, so it's imperative that they learn to respect the regulations that allow the line of work to feasibly exist in the first place.

Edited by heejung on Feb 25th 2020 at 6:50:08 PM

It's why they get off lightly despite breaking important rules. The chief makes a clear exception to them, despite the consequences being really, really harsh. Gentle alone shows how a single failed intervention can completely destroy you. And the kids avoided that fate.

Edited by devak on Feb 25th 2020 at 10:48:38 AM