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TargetmasterJoe Much more than meets the eye! from The City, USA Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
Much more than meets the eye!
Dec 27th 2018 at 9:16:51 PM

Apparently, Titans will be on all international versions of Netflix on January 11, 2019.

...So it's coming everywhere except on Netflix USA. Americans can only see it on the DC Universe service.

Nuts. sad

Status: Evil beware, I have Twitter!
Zeromaeus Mighty No. 51345 from Neo Arcadia
Mighty No. 51345
Dec 27th 2018 at 11:24:56 PM

Yeah. Still not getting DC Universe. I might get it when Doom Patrol comes out, but I'm really leaning against it.

Mega Man fanatic extraordinaire
Dec 28th 2018 at 9:07:00 AM

[up][up]Iím still hoping for DC Universe to tank for that reason, not out of any exceptional malice or hatred for the programs, but we have too many damn on demand services and 2019 will hopefully be the year some of the more extraneous ones (like CBS All Access) shut their doors and limit the endless dividing of IPís.

"That's right kid. Never play an ace when a two will do."
alliterator professional crastinator from Southern California
professional crastinator
Dec 29th 2018 at 1:14:41 AM

I got DC Universe to see Titans and it's actually not that bad. It's better than CBS All Access, which crashes every single time I try to use it, so I can't even watch Star Trek: Discovery.

In any case, Titans also isn't the only show I like to watch on the service — it also has Young Justice, Batman: The Brave and the Bold, and all of the DCAU cartoons, which is pretty awesome.

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
Dec 29th 2018 at 7:42:07 AM

Titans had an excellent cast, good production values, and got used very heavily to test the waters for which characters should have their own series. To the point where that derailed their own plot more than a bit - So many of its episodes were basically backdoor pilots.

Dec 29th 2018 at 8:10:35 AM

Christ was that a confusing season. I liked the way it started.

    Gripes 

  • The finale was 3/4 a dream Dick Grayson was having.
  • Kori flops between murderous psychopath to snarky, sex-positive, amnesiac.
  • So Garth only gets to be a tiger.
  • The Doom Patrol, one of the older DC super-teams, is actually a bunch of patients who've not become a super-team at all.
  • So was I not paying attention or did a crap ton of plot threads get left open - Doom Patrol doctor guy staring out the window after Garth walked out on him, Hawk and Dove finding Jason, robot assassin family, Donna being Jessica Jones and... filming that poacher's collection of illegally hunted animals?
  • Speaking of which did they seriously open a truck with a bear inside of it? Was the bear missing limbs or something? What was that thing? It didn't seem friendly.
  • So Trigon is Jim Jones some white dude instead of a fiery red demon with like six eyes. Who makes these decisions?
  • Hawk and Dove were nothing like what I expected them to be.
  • The switch from this season focusing on Rachel to this season focusing on Dick is bound to give you vertigo.
  • This quasi-realistic style DC seems to love is getting real old. This show likes to play around with there being all sorts of interchangeable weirdness in the setting note  but then Hawk and Dove seem to just be costumed dickheads who take out their pain on others, and I mean both versions of the duo, not just Hank and Dawn. Didn't their story involve cosmic gods of order and chaos, and Hawk and Dove were supposed to be morally opposed?
  • Donna gives a pretty sh-t review of Bruce's raising of Dick. I'm drawing from Injustice and TAS here but I've never seen anybody call what Bruce did for Dick in a negative light. IIRC Dick's reason for leaving was because he didn't want to be the sidekick.
  • Why do we persist with these PG-13 sex scenes between Dick and Kori/Hank and Dawn? It's not tantalizing, it's a colossal waste of everyone's time.
  • Don't care for the way they visualize Kori's powers. "Flamethrower" < "Green starbolts."
  • The gore and the pretentious "don't cross that line" crap - again.
  • So Dick just reveals Batman's identity and the police instantly trust him to lead their operation to take Bruce down, even adding explosive charges that are sure to bring down the SWAT teams that breach the mansion.
  • I'm sorry but... Kori is not the Starfire I'm used to. I can buy the purple part of her outfit, but the fur coat, the darker skin, the take-no-shit attitude? Is this what she's like in the comics?
  • While I'm at it Garth doesn't look like Beast Boy at all to me, and I'm thinking about the Young Justice version when I say that. Robin is passable, Rachel is passable, and Donna doesn't suit up so eh. Garth and Kori I don't care for at all.
  • Lack of Cyborg. ding
  • Trying to tie in Kori's alien backstory with Rachel Roth's demon backstory was a horrible decision. BOTD maybe this was part of the comics but I've never seen it written that way anywhere else.

    Pro's 

  • Gotham City actually looks like Gotham City. Suck it Arrowverse.
  • Batman really kicked the sh-t out of those SWAT dudes
  • I thought it was odd that Dick and Donna seemed so brother/sister but that's actually part of the comics. They haven't shagged. Interesting.
  • I like the way the flashbacks were handled and tied into the present timeline, but they waited a good long while to do that Hawk/Dove episode.
  • Donna Troy and Jason Todd finally get live-action portrayals.
  • "Starfire" at least got name-dropped.
  • This quasi-realistic style DC seems to like has gotten old, making it extremely refreshing when Donna references more fantastical concepts like the League and Themyscira.
  • They gave Jason the same fate Barbara had in The Killing Joke. [lol]

I liked the set-up of the first 2-3 episodes, but the show nose-dived in it's second half.

Edited by Soble on Dec 29th 2018 at 8:21:59 AM

alliterator professional crastinator from Southern California
professional crastinator
Dec 29th 2018 at 9:22:25 AM

The finale was 3/4 a dream Dick Grayson was having.
The reason for this, apparently, is that episode 11 was not supposed to be the finale. Episode 12, "Raven," was supposed to be the finale, but for some reason, they decided that it would work better as Season 2's premiere — perhaps they couldn't finish it in time or perhaps they felt that a cliffhanger ending worked better for Season 1, I don't know. But it's certainly not the first time a season of television has ended with a cliffhanger.

So Dick just reveals Batman's identity and the police instantly trust him to lead their operation to take Bruce down, even adding explosive charges that are sure to bring down the SWAT teams that breach the mansion.
To be fair, this was an illusion created by Trigon in an attempt to manipulate Dick. It didn't have to be realistic.

Trying to tie in Kori's alien backstory with Rachel Roth's demon backstory was a horrible decision.
Why not? It makes things a bit more seamless — now, she isn't just on Earth for various "reasons," but rather to kill Rachel, which explains why she gets involved in the first place. Otherwise, how would she be able to get involved?

While I'm at it Garth doesn't look like Beast Boy at all to me
Aside from skin color, he looks pretty much exactly like Beast Boy to me.

So Trigon is Jim Jones some white dude instead of a fiery red demon with like six eyes. Who makes these decisions?
I'd rather have Seamus Deaver than some CGI monstrosity anyday. Deaver's evil acting was top notch.

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
Dec 29th 2018 at 11:17:14 AM

Kori flops between murderous psychopath to snarky, sex-positive, amnesiac.

If by "murderous psycopath" you mean only kills people trying to kill her and her friends.

[quoteblock]]So Garth only gets to be a tiger. [[/quoteblock]]

They all but stated he can do more.

The Doom Patrol, one of the older DC super-teams, is actually a bunch of patients who've not become a super-team at all.

That's more in line with who they are. They're less superheroes and more social outcast support group.

Donna gives a pretty sh-t review of Bruce's raising of Dick. I'm drawing from Injustice and TAS here but I've never seen anybody call what Bruce did for Dick in a negative light. IIRC Dick's reason for leaving was because he didn't want to be the sidekick.

Numerous comics treat it this way. Also, in Young Justice, Diana admonishes Bruce for turning Robin into him.

I'm sorry but... Kori is not the Starfire I'm used to. I can buy the purple part of her outfit, but the fur coat, the darker skin, the take-no-shit attitude? Is this what she's like in the comics?

With the exception of the fur coat yes.

Trying to tie in Kori's alien backstory with Rachel Roth's demon backstory was a horrible decision. BOTD maybe this was part of the comics but I've never seen it written that way anywhere else.

This change is a reference to when a Trigon-possessed Raven destroyed Kory's home planet.

kkhohoho Deranged X-Mas Figure from The Insanity Pole Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Deranged X-Mas Figure
Dec 29th 2018 at 1:34:37 PM

[up]

That's more in line with who they are. They're less superheroes and more social outcast support group.

Maybe during the Morrison years, but more often than not, they're a bonafide Superhero team.

Sonic and the Freedom Fighters — Blue Horizon: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12583620/1/Sonic-and-the-Freedom-Fighters-Blue-Horizon
alliterator professional crastinator from Southern California
professional crastinator
Dec 29th 2018 at 1:50:00 PM

Have you read the original Arnold Drake/Bruno Premiani run? Half of the time, they were fighting aliens or the Animal-Vegetable-Mineral Man or the Brotherhood of Evil and the other half, they were a support group of "freaks." They were always like that.

(When Paul Kupperberg brought them back in the '80s, he tried to make them more X-Men-like, but nobody really cared until Morrison took over.)

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
Dec 29th 2018 at 3:31:00 PM

But it's certainly not the first time a season of television has ended with a cliffhanger.

It's the most jarring cliffhanger I've seen this year.

To be fair, this was an illusion created by Trigon in an attempt to manipulate Dick. It didn't have to be realistic.

Well that was a slow burn then. But why does Trigon even need to do any of that?

Why not? It makes things a bit more seamless ó now, she isn't just on Earth for various "reasons," but rather to kill Rachel, which explains why she gets involved in the first place. Otherwise, how would she be able to get involved?

Crashes on earth, makes a life for herself, happens to be the protector Rachel needs when she's being hunted, sticks around because Rachel/Garth/Dick are good people, wigs out when Rachel uses her powers on her.

I'd sooner believe they just wanted to get rid of the enslavement part of her origin story than they absolutely needed to come up with a reason for Kori to be there.

AFAIK The Titans didn't get together because they were intrinsically involved with each others' lives. Teen Titans 03 just had them all respond to the same crisis, similar to how the Justice League formed after the core members responded to some alien invasion.

Aside from skin color, he looks pretty much exactly like Beast Boy to me.

I'm going to have to agree to disagree.

If by "murderous psycopath" you mean only kills people trying to kill her and her friends.

The cops on the train?

They all but stated he can do more.

I still only saw a tiger.

Which, glass half empty, sounds like a convenient narrative restriction that lets them cut down on special effects costs.

Numerous comics treat it this way. Also, in Young Justice, Diana admonishes Bruce for turning Robin into him.

First I've heard of it. But, then, I don't really read the comics.

This change is a reference to when a Trigon-possessed Raven destroyed Kory's home planet.

Not calling you a liar, but apparently it was such an obscure reference or storyline that Wikipedia has no mention of it on the Tamaran article. And I checked DC's Wiki as well.

If the logic was to combine these storylines because a small amount of comic readers would get the connection, well, Starfire being there with amnesia and getting wrapped up in Dick and Rachel's quest would have been a lot simpler if you ask me.

Edited by Soble on Dec 29th 2018 at 3:37:55 AM

kkhohoho Deranged X-Mas Figure from The Insanity Pole Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Deranged X-Mas Figure
Dec 29th 2018 at 3:31:31 PM

[up][up]Yes, I did, and from what I remember they were mostly fighting other freaks. They didn't spend most of their time sitting in a circle and doing support group things. Though it has been a while (a reeeeeeeeeeally long while,) since I read it.

Edited by kkhohoho on Dec 29th 2018 at 5:31:43 AM

Sonic and the Freedom Fighters — Blue Horizon: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12583620/1/Sonic-and-the-Freedom-Fighters-Blue-Horizon
Dec 29th 2018 at 3:46:53 PM

The cops on the train?

Not stated to be dead.

But did he actually do more. Because I only saw a tiger, and heard the supposed explanation that he can "reorganize his DNA" or something to that effect. Which, glass half empty, sounds like a convenient way to cut down on special effects costs.

It's the Titans' origin story. Gar is figuring out his powers.

Not calling you a liar, but apparently it was such an obscure reference or storyline that Wikipedia has no mention of it on the Tamaran article. And I checked DC's Wiki as well.[[/quoteblock]

The DC wiki does site Raven as the destroyer of Tamaran.

[[quoteblock]]Tamaran Destroyed

Starfire later returned to Tamaran, after a savage attack by an evil version of her teammate, Raven. [...]

Meanwhile, Victor Stone (formerly Cyborg) had merged his consciousness with the alien race known as Technis, in an effort to save the dying race. Cyborg was reunited with his former teammates as an evil version of Raven tried to destroy her good soul, which lay dormant in the body of Starfire. To ferret out Starfire, evil Raven incited a conflict in the Vegan star system.

The war Evil Raven starts is what ultimately destroys Tamaran.

So in a show that was already facing criticism that just feels reckless.

How? At worst, it's a storyline most of the audience would be unfamiliar with, which applies to most comic storylines adapted for movies or t.v.

Dec 29th 2018 at 4:51:59 PM

It's the Titans' origin story. Gar is figuring out his powers.

So is that just mandatory for this team's origin to happen? Because it feels mighty convenient when everybody else besides Rachel more or less has a grip on their role/powers.

Not stated to be dead.

She hit them with what is essentially a flamethrower.

But fine, not a murderous psychopath. But it feels like we got a huge jump from her being an amnesiac criminal who breaks into police stations, to being a caring emotional guru for the rest of the team who makes jokes about Gar wanting to make out with Rachel.

How? At worst, it's a storyline most of the audience would be unfamiliar with, which applies to most comic storylines adapted for movies or t.v.

A show like this, which is already starting fires because of its differences, deciding to merge two storylines "because it brings Kory into the story" is not what I'd call practical.

It's like if the DCU responded to criticism of its movies being too dark and edgy by making a TV series that is extremely dark and edg...

Edited by Soble on Dec 29th 2018 at 5:01:56 AM

FrozenWolf2 Avatar of War from Have you seen me?
Avatar of War
Dec 30th 2018 at 12:31:15 AM

Its Gar not Garth

Garth = Aqualad/Tempest

Gar is shorthand = Garfield = Beast Boys name 'Don't worry even DC does it'

Hawk and Dove is clearly an attempt to revamp them as a vigilante couple focusing more on their Dynamic as a Couple whether you see the relationship as Toxic, or just cheap Tumblr fodder 'Geoff has been trying to turn them into an overt couple for a while now'

Hawk and Dove originally was two opposite meant to learn from each other and balance each other out.

"But old memories seldom fade and bad habits die hard."
alliterator professional crastinator from Southern California
professional crastinator
Dec 30th 2018 at 1:54:51 AM

Crashes on earth, makes a life for herself, happens to be the protector Rachel needs when she's being hunted, sticks around because Rachel/Garth/Dick are good people, wigs out when Rachel uses her powers on her.
But that's not the story the writers wanted to tell. You appear to want a completely different story with completely different characters. In which case, I would recommend reading the comics.

Edited by alliterator on Dec 30th 2018 at 1:55:07 AM

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
Dec 30th 2018 at 4:06:27 AM

So is that just mandatory for this team's origin to happen? Because it feels mighty convenient when everybody else besides Rachel more or less has a grip on their role/powers.

Dick doesn't have any powers and Kory is suffering from amnesia. It isn't mandatory that Gar not know his full powers yet but it's still a valid choice.

She hit them with what is essentially a flamethrower.

We never see the blast actually touch the cops, just destroy a part of the train.

A show like this, which is already starting fires because of its differences, deciding to merge two storylines "because it brings Kory into the story" is not what I'd call practical.

It's an adaptation of a popular comic property that is notably different from it's predecessor. Of course it's going to get push back for being different. It happened with the Amazing Spider-Man movies, it's been happening to every DC animated show or movie since the DCAU ended. There is nothing about this storytelling choice that is impractical from an objective standpoint.

It's like if the DCU responded to criticism of its movies being too dark and edgy by making a TV series that is extremely dark and edg...

Sure, let's ignore that between Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Shazam, Justice League and most of the CW shows, there is more than enough light hearted DC content to satisfy those who don't like this show's tone.

Edited by windleopard on Dec 30th 2018 at 4:10:41 AM

Dec 30th 2018 at 6:31:18 AM

Gar is shorthand = Garfield = Beast Boys name 'Don't worry even DC does it'

Damn it, Aqualad = Garth. Garfield = Gar, yes. [facepalm]

But that's not the story the writers wanted to tell. You appear to want a completely different story with completely different characters. In which case, I would recommend reading the comics.

I don't really see wanting to tell a different story as a good defense against criticism. I could very well want to tell a different story and still make unpopular narrative decisions.

I like Batman vs Superman but I'm not going to tell anyone who thinks that

  • Batman shouldn't kill people
  • Superman should be cheerier
  • Doomsday shouldn't have had laser vision/been Luthor's science experiment

That "the writers wanted to tell a different story" and that they should read the comics instead. Those were all contentious, risky changes for the sake of telling a different story. It's not the viewer's fault for disliking them.

It's the same as all of the changes Teen Titans 03 made, which I liked, but I reluctantly accept why people who read the comics and wanted to see that brought to life didn't.

Edited by Soble on Dec 30th 2018 at 6:36:18 AM

alliterator professional crastinator from Southern California
professional crastinator
Dec 30th 2018 at 10:57:35 AM

I don't really see wanting to tell a different story as a good defense against criticism.
But there are valid criticisms ("This was boring/badly written/badly directed") and criticisms that are, well, petty ("Why is Starfire's storyline connected to Raven's and not completely separate?").

The answer to that question is "Because the writers wanted to make her storyline connected to Raven. It connected the characters together in a more seamless way, allowing Kori to go and find Rachel, rather than just randomly running into her."

Because this isn't a criticism of the acting or directing or writing, it's a criticism of the plot itself. Which is silly. It's like saying "I didn't enjoy Iron Man 2 because I wanted it to be 'Demon in a Bottle'" or "I didn't like Batman v Superman because that's not how Batman and Superman should have met."

I like Batman vs Superman but I'm not going to tell anyone who thinks that

  • Batman shouldn't kill people
  • Superman should be cheerier
  • Doomsday shouldn't have had laser vision/been Luthor's science experiment

That "the writers wanted to tell a different story" and that they should read the comics instead. Those were all contentious, risky changes for the sake of telling a different story. It's not the viewer's fault for disliking them.

None of those things you listed would change the fundamental plot of BVS. Your complaint about Starfire would change the fundamental plot of Titans. Kori's entire storyline is about her regaining her memories of her mission, which was being sent to Earth to kill Rachel. You basically want to erase her entire plot from the show.

Edited by alliterator on Dec 30th 2018 at 11:00:56 AM

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
Jan 8th 2019 at 8:36:41 AM

My phone just said Titans was coming to Netflix on January 11th...then it remembered ďlol nope you live in the US, buy DC Universe!Ē

And this is why DC Universe has to die. Itís not even shade on the productions, itís just that the world really needs some of these start up on demand services to tank and reduce the division of media.

Edited by Beatman1 on Jan 8th 2019 at 11:37:00 AM

"That's right kid. Never play an ace when a two will do."
alliterator professional crastinator from Southern California
professional crastinator
Jan 8th 2019 at 8:47:31 AM

But if DC Universe dies, so, too, does Titans and Doom Patrol and all the other original shows. The only reason Netflix is getting the show outside the US is because the show is already made. Without DC Universe, no show.

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
Jan 8th 2019 at 10:58:43 AM

[up]We have too many On Demand channels as it is, and Iím hoping 2019 is the year a few of the more extraneous ones close their doors.

Mostly though Iím mad at Netflix for teasing me like that.

"That's right kid. Never play an ace when a two will do."
VeryMelon SUPER SOMETHING ELSE from United States Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
SUPER SOMETHING ELSE
Jan 8th 2019 at 11:00:34 AM

I wouldn't mind losing DC Universe, but not before Young Justice: Outsiders is over.

Mr. McMahon reacts to Marvel's Phase 3 line-up
slimcoder I'm No One Special. Just a Passing Pro Wrestler.
I'm No One Special. Just a Passing Pro Wrestler.
Jan 8th 2019 at 8:04:30 PM

No offense Beatman but your constant pleading for it to die makes me in return wish for itís eternal survival. evil grin

Jan 8th 2019 at 10:34:40 PM

Anyone know what the viewership numbers are for this show?


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