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MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#576: Feb 19th 2017 at 3:39:33 AM

The numbers of photons can be infinite, you know.
Sure it can, if you shine a light source on the object for an infinite duration of time. Which, obviously, requires that the light source have an infinite power source and that the object stays in the path of the light rays.

There is no "law of conservation of photon number" as far as I know, and none of the other laws can be read this way.
... What do laws of conservation have to do with this?

Besides, what is "a" photon here? A single wave packet?
I define "photon" as "an elementary particle [that is] the quantum of electromagnetic radiation", with "quantum" itself defined as "the minimum amount of any physical entity involved in an interaction". Basically, "photon = smallest possible quantity of electromagnetic radiation".

edited 19th Feb '17 3:42:46 AM by MarqFJA

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SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#577: Feb 19th 2017 at 7:25:13 AM

That's where the quantum gravity issue comes in. It is not clear how general relativity and quantum mechanics interact.

Laws of conservation have to do with this because there is no logic behind "running out of photons" otherwise.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Elfhunter NO ONE SUSPECTS THE LAMP! from India Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: My elf kissing days are over
NO ONE SUSPECTS THE LAMP!
#578: Feb 19th 2017 at 9:23:40 AM

[up]x4 Well, not all of the photons will get bent by the gravitational pull; assuming a finite-sized object, the photons travelling the direct path between the centre of the object and the observer will not be bent since the effects of the black hole's pull would get cancelled out.

Of course, following that line of thinking, it would necessarily mean that you wouldn't be able to see that part of the object once it reaches the event horizon, and you'd be able to see less and less of the object's apparent area as time goes on, but parts of it would still be visible to us forever since the last photons would reach us at infinite time.

If I knew how I know everything I know, I'd only be able to know half as much because my brain would be clogged up with where I know it from
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#579: Feb 19th 2017 at 11:17:11 AM

Laws of conservation have to do with this because there is no logic behind "running out of photons" otherwise.
But there is.

  1. The law of conservation of energy says that energy cannot be created ex nihilo or destroyed (notwithstanding scientific proof of the existence of an omnipotent entity — such as the Abrahamic God — that can violate this law, of course); ergo, like all forms of energy, electromagnetic radiation (henceforth referred to as "EMR") has to have a source, whether it's a star, a lamp, or a fire.
  2. There is no such thing as "infinite energy" in the absence of an "infinite energy source". And as far as science knows, an infinite energy source is purely a thing of the imagination that is only useful for thought experiments involving ideal conditions.
  3. We see objects because EMR hits the objects and a portion of it is reflected off it (in the human eye's case, EMR obviously has to be in the visible part of the spectrum).
  4. The smallest quantifiable unit of EMR is the photonnote  The energy carried by each and every photon in existence has an explicitly finite value that is equal to h multiplied by v, where h is Planck's constant and v is the photon's frequency (which is the inverse of its wavelength).
  5. From the previous points, it's evident that at any given instant, there is a finite quantity of photons (and thus a finite quantity of EMR) hitting an object at any given time, no matter how large or small that amount is. The quantity of photons reflecting off this object is similarly finite, and is only effectively infinite if you manage to acquire an infinite source of photons and ensure that the photons keep hitting the object for an infinite duration of time. If you remove the object from the photons' path (as would happen once its pulled by a black hole past the event horizon), the photons that have yet to make contact with the object will just continue onwards with no change whatsoever (until they encounter something else that induces a change), while the finite amount of photons that were the last to hit the object will continue on the path that was taken by their predecessors.

edited 19th Feb '17 11:17:59 AM by MarqFJA

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SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#580: Feb 19th 2017 at 11:23:11 AM

Sire, please read my previous post with the "finite energy" bit. There is no "minimum energy content" for a photon, as they get redshifted their energy content drops.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#581: Feb 19th 2017 at 1:19:07 PM

[up] Yes, the energy of each photon drops due to redshift, but that's because it's climbing up out of the gravitational well of the black hole (in this particular example). That does not mean that the energy emitted/reflected from the target object is distributed across a larger number of lower energy photons. So the lower energy of each photon ultimately does not effect the number of photon/quantity of light emitted or reflected by the targeted object.

HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#582: Feb 22nd 2017 at 2:31:46 AM

Other than lasers, have we develop other non-physical projectiles?

edited 22nd Feb '17 2:32:34 AM by HallowHawk

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#583: Feb 22nd 2017 at 5:49:34 AM

Microwaves. Weaponized microwaves are used to debilitate large crowds of people. This technology is apparently still being tested and has not been fully implemented yet.

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HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#584: Feb 22nd 2017 at 6:44:37 AM

[up] Also found out about plasma weapons. It's a for a story of mine, but how do I differentiate between lasers and plasma weapons?

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#585: Feb 22nd 2017 at 7:00:27 AM

The most obvious difference is that plasma inherently has quite a bit of an electric charge, so significantly more electromagnetic effects in general than even electrolasers. At the very least, anything hit by a plasma blast had better be well-insulated against electricity, otherwise any delicate electronics will probably be fried even if the blast only directly hit the external armor.

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LambentSoul Ragna the Bloodedge from New Livingston Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Ragna the Bloodedge
#586: Mar 14th 2017 at 1:19:58 PM

What kind of clothes are best suited to wear when you are anticipating a battle against someone who can generate an electric charge which happens to be about the strength of an illegal tazer? Also would gold be a hindrance?

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Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#587: Mar 14th 2017 at 2:09:27 PM

[up]Gold is a better conductor than copper. So, unless that gold is supposed to conduct charge away from principal areas, forget it: burns aren't fun.

Any insulation would be good, but rubber between the character and the ground would be an absolute must. Remember... it's not the charge itself that kills you, but incautious closing of the circuit in which you form a component which does it. tongue

edited 14th Mar '17 2:53:05 PM by Euodiachloris

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#588: Mar 14th 2017 at 2:46:22 PM

Metal armor that touches ground but is insulated from the wearer would actually be idea. So a rubber jumpsuit underarmor underneath metallic armor of any kind would work.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#589: Mar 15th 2017 at 7:06:17 AM

There's of course what is arguably the most important issue with insulators: No insulator is perfect, and part of the imperfection is that the material will heat up as long as it's resisting an electric current's attempts to conduct through it, which will inevitably lead to the insulator melting down should enough time be allowed to pass under such conditions (inversely proportional to the strength of the current). In other words, make sure that the actual insulator is not only not in physical contact with your body, but is separated from said body by another material that can protect the latter from the former's melted state in the worst-case scenario.

edited 15th Mar '17 7:06:37 AM by MarqFJA

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blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#590: Mar 15th 2017 at 7:50:30 AM

Or create a path-of-least-resistance. An outer skin of conducting material that touches some large piece of metal or ground.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Aetol from France Since: Jan, 2015
#591: Mar 16th 2017 at 5:52:14 AM

As long as the insulator can dissipate heat fast enough (and there won't be that much heat if it's a good insulator), it's not going to melt no matter how much time passes.

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SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#592: Mar 20th 2017 at 2:27:32 PM

A question that I can't find the answer for on Google: Is there some kind of formula or diagram that compares the average insolation of a given area over a year - or photovoltaic energy output over a year - to the insolation at a given hour and day of the year?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Aetol from France Since: Jan, 2015
#593: Mar 20th 2017 at 5:32:38 PM

Ignoring the effect of clouds, the average insolation would be given by the integration of the insolation over a year.

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Victin Since: Dec, 2011
#594: Mar 20th 2017 at 5:35:49 PM

Divided by the bounds of integration, I presume.

EDIT: Why ignore the effect of clouds, tho?

edited 20th Mar '17 5:36:07 PM by Victin

Aetol from France Since: Jan, 2015
#595: Mar 20th 2017 at 5:55:27 PM

Well, technically it also work when accounting for the clouds, but you can't make that calculation a priori. Without clouds, it's just geometry.

Worldbuilding is fun, writing is a chore
Victin Since: Dec, 2011
#596: Mar 20th 2017 at 6:56:25 PM

@Septimus Heap: The relevant theorem is the mean value theorem. Although, really, the idea here is that you can approximate the area under the graph of insolation over time (of a given, fixed place in the world) by a rectangle with one of the sides having the same lenght of the amount of time considered. The mean value theorem simply tells you that there's at least one day of the year had insolation equal to the average insolation, if the conditions of the theorem are satisfied, of course.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#597: Mar 20th 2017 at 11:54:47 PM

Ok, seems like I formulated the question incorrectly. I don't have data on how much insolation - accounting for clouds and the lack of such in a dry summer climate, think interior California - occurs at given days and hours. That is the information I am searching, along with a yearly average.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
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#598: Apr 19th 2017 at 10:24:31 AM

Physicists observe 'negative mass'

Prof Peter Engels, from Washington State University (WSU), and colleagues cooled rubidium atoms to just above the temperature of absolute zero (close to -273C), creating what's known as a Bose-Einstein condensate.

In this state, particles move extremely slowly, and following behaviour predicted by quantum mechanics, acting like waves.

They also synchronise and move together in what's known as a superfluid, which flows without losing energy.

To create the conditions for negative mass, the researchers used lasers to trap the rubidium atoms and to kick them back and forth, changing the way they spin.

When the atoms were released from the laser trap, they expanded, with some displaying negative mass.

"With negative mass, if you push something, it accelerates toward you," said co-author Michael Forbes, assistant professor of physics at WSU.

He added: "It looks like the rubidium hits an invisible wall."

The technique could be used to better understand the phenomenon, say the researchers.

"What's a first here is the exquisite control we have over the nature of this negative mass, without any other complications," said Dr Forbes.

This heightened control also gives researchers a tool for exploring the possible relationships between negative mass and phenomena observed in the cosmos, such as neutron stars, black holes and dark energy.

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SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#599: Apr 19th 2017 at 10:27:17 AM

If true, that's a major discovery.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#600: Apr 19th 2017 at 12:05:27 PM

"With negative mass, if you push something, it accelerates toward you"

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you

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