Eastern European Politics

And yet this Ruderman Family Foundation ("guided by our Jewish values", as it says on their main page) has just slandered Poland by portraying it as co-responsible for the Holocaust in their recent video, taken off YT amidst overwhelming dislike.

While this was in response to a frankly stupid law that would threaten anyone speaking about "polish death camps" with up to three years of jail - which also whitwashes the things we did - there's such a thing as going too far; rewriting history is going too far, on both sides. RFF's spot is Debbie Schlussel-grade of mudslinging.

Worst thing is, that's probably exactly what PIS would want - a living proof of "the conspiracy" aimed against Poland's national interests and its people. All RFF and anyone willing to respond to that law needed to do was to condemn the law in question as punishing a lack of knowledge and education (which it does, as I realize that the knowledge of the details of the Holocaust may be blurry in some regions of the world). There.

I realize that I have written a post about this in European Politics Thread, but - much to my disappointment which I sadly find not at all surprising - it was met with no response from anyone, be it critique, commentary or suggestion.

edited 22nd Feb '18 11:20:07 AM by FergardStratoavis

World War II wasn't fought over racism or antisemitism - it was fought over land and resources, like most wars.

Not to mention that Hungary was on Germany's side in this war.

edited 22nd Feb '18 11:21:10 AM by DrunkenNordmann

However, it did prove, if nothing else, the inefficiency and destructive consequences of nazism in those Eastern European countries. Even disregarding racism, why anyone would still want that back is beyond me.

World War II was in large part fought over racism and antisemitism, actually. That was most likely Hitler's big motivation, land and resources were also important but not the principal driver.

Land and resources cleansed of "sub-humans" and colonized by "Aryans". That's essentially Generalplan Ost. Can't have one without the other. But that was just Hitler. I doubt Stalin gave two shits, judging by his treatment of Jews.

I do wonder how the entire Soros thing started though. So bizarre to make it about one guy i official policy.

edited 22nd Feb '18 1:23:20 PM by TerminusEst

Oh, they picked him because he's not actually powerful enough to really threaten Hungary. That, and the chest-pounding "look how cowardly that guy is, trying to bring us down with trickery and manipulation" caveman rhetoric. I mean, if they were to pick a fight with Trump or Putin instead, the consequences would be catastrophic. Why do you think they threw their lot in with Putin so spectacularly in the past few years? Orbán and co. are crooks, not morons.

Which reminds me, a report just came out by Amnesty International that rates Hungary as the second most corrupt country in the entirety of Europe (behind only Bulgaria) due to corruption being deeply systemic.

edited 22nd Feb '18 2:47:49 PM by amitakartok

Light has been spotted at the end of the tunnel, ladies and gentlemen.

Interim elections were held in a city that has always been a Fidesz stronghold, including being the hometown of Orbán's right hand minister Lázár in the govt. As in, ever since communist times, it has never had a single mayor who wasn't Fidesz or KDNP. Back in 2014, the Fidesz candidate won by 61.03% while Jobbik scored 17.11% and the left 14.99%.

Today, an independent candidate backed by the entire opposition won by 57.49% at almost twice the turnout as four years ago, despite massive attacks by Fidesz, including a defamation leaflet campaign a few days ago.

This is a MASSIVE blow to Fidesz, with both them and the opposition having been hyping this up as practically the prelude of the national elections. Predictably, Fidesz is being very quiet and trying to instead point at them having won a completely different and completely insignificant interim election held elsewhere at the same time. At the same time, the entire opposition is on cloud nine:

• Karácsony (MSZP-PM joint PM candidate): "If we can beat Fidesz there, we can beat them anywhere. If there's cooperation, there's victory; we have to sit down coordinating with the democratic parties." When asked if that includes Jobbik, as they pitched in for this result themselves, he replied that the left comes first for coordination.
  • Botka (former MSZP PM candidate): "We showed how strong we are together." He added that on the election day, everyone should go and vote for the opposition candidates with the best chances (notably not excluding Jobbik).
• Vona (Jobbik PM candidate): "Today's victory is a turning point, a historical victory. If Fidesz can be beaten in Lázár's city, they can be beaten everywhere in the country and the age of lies, theft and arrogance will come to an end. This day's message: there's hope, Hungary. The city proved: the people cannot be banned, but the government can be replaced, Orbán can be defeated. All Hungarians who are still disappointed today got hope."
• LMP: "The ice has broken! The hate campaign hasn't succeeded, couldn't defeat the excellent candidate, couldn't keep the voter home, Fidesz lost the city. This is a good omen for April 8!"
• Momentum: "This victory proves one thing: if there's a real stake, even the uncertain will go vote. Only with them is it possible to make a crack in Fidesz' shield, so our goal is to give them too hope. Like we've been saying: defeating Fidesz is not going to rest on our shoulders."
• Együtt: "Historical victory!!! Congratulations to the candidate and all citizens! Today has proven that if there's one candidate standing against Fidesz, even an opposition supermajority isn't impossible this spring. Fidesz is in the minority and will fall. All opposition who didn't want to cooperate so far must change. If there's cooperation in the voting districts, Orbán won't have a place to stay."
• Gyurcsány (DK candidate and ex-PM): "This is mainly the candidate's victory. His success. Everything comes after this. Let's congratulate him. I know he has strong reservations about the left, but there's nothing wrong with that. Today the question isn't whether leftist or rightist democrats lead the cities or the country. There's one question: will there be again a Republic, rule of law, democracy, a European civic world? And today we believe more than before: yes, we'll be a normal European country. Because there's more of us who have had enough of Orbán's world. The constant warring, the constant turmoil, the lack of plain speech. We want to live. Just live, not war. Yes, there are arguments between the democrats. That's natural. But arguments are not wars. The candidate's victory shows that more things connect the democrats in the struggle against Orbán than what divides them. This is how we can win in April too. Struggle. Without compromise."

Yet another example of how disconnected Fidesz hardliners are from reality: the minister of foreign is demanding the resignation of the High Commissioner of the UN Council of Human Rights for having called Orbán racist (Orbán allegedly stated earlier this month that "we don't want our color to mix with others", but I can't find a source on that), saying that such "derogatory and outrageous accusations" are "unbecoming of the holder of an international office".

That's not how it works, silly boy. A noname little shit of a country doesn't get to tell the UN what they're allowed or not allowed to say about you and thinking otherwise is straight-up North Korea levels of self-delusion.

That's right up there with "Look, a squirrel!" for obviously dodging the question. If Fidesz can't get a majority, then any government will have to have Jobbik's support. Now, Jobbik may have been Friendly Neighborhood Nazis for a while now, but even if it's to topple Fidesz, I don't like the concessions that they'll extract from the left for their support (unless they're so committed to toppling Fidesz that they offer no-strings support).

I presume the city you're talking about is this one, right?

In any case, there's a momentum brewing, then. If the competent opposition parties direct in the better direction, then things will begin to shift.

edited 28th Feb '18 3:43:34 AM by Quag15

Meanwhile, Investigative Reporter, Girlfriend Found Shot Dead in Slovakia. He was investigating links between politics in Slovakia and the 'Ndrangheta, Italy's most powerful criminal organization (supposedly, over 3% of the Italian economy is them) and one of the most influential in the whole world.

This isn't a common thing for them (the other instance was 2007 in Duisburg, Germany, as part of the San Luca feud), 'Ndrangheta usually eschews murder in favour of corruption which is why they aren't as visible as the Mexican cartels, but they have infiltrated local governments in Italy rather effectively. Perhaps they are now trying to apply the same tactic to other countries.

I'm impressed. This is some Kingpin shit right there.

Response from the UN High Commissioner of Human Rights to the above demand to resign for calling Orbán racist.

National holiday today, lots of events and speeches by various political parties.

Orbán openly threatened retribution against the so-called antidemocratic forces after the elections because in his words, the stake of the elections next month isn't the continued reign of Fidesz but the continued existence of the country.

Vona's reaction to that in his own speech was remarking that the last guy to threaten the people was a certain communist propagandist and like that guy, Orbán will fall too because Hungary is about to return not to communism, but to feudalism.

Gyurcsány called Jobbik for negotiations about how to go about demolishing the current regime after the elections. Jobbik declined.

Karácsony also said that he'll sit down with Jobbik because "we have to team up even with the devil, but that doesn't mean we have to become devils ourselves" and that Orbán went from liberal to illiberal in 20 years while Vona did the opposite in 3. LMP remarked to that that it's kinda hard to call for negotiations when Karácsony is saying that if Vona wins, Orbán wins.

Speaking of which, LMP's PM candidate said in her own speech that with community workers basically having feudal ties and people getting fired from their jobs for speaking out against the government, it'd be wrong to think this is an isolated thing affecting a small circle that will consolidate because "let's not have any illusions, sooner or later everyone gets their turn" but reminded her audience that despite having kicked out one pillar of democracy after another, Fidesz couldn't take away the freedom of election, so there's still a way.

There was also a protest by student organizations at the state of the educational system. A few of the students scaled the cordon around the National Museum (where the 1848 revolution started exactly 170 years ago) and waved an EU flag on the stairs, then got chased through downtown by the police but there was no violence or public disturbance.

edited 15th Mar '18 5:00:47 PM by amitakartok

It is so sad that so many people are falling for this BS. Because clearly the greatest problem Hungary faces is immigration... .

https://www.youthreporter.eu/de/beitrag/hungary-why-staying-is-not-an-option-for-many-anymore.13015/#.WqsjU-jOWUk

Less than a week left until elections. Start praying for a miracle, people.

Fidesz have been asked why is their election campaign so aggressive in tone that they're resorting to shit like accusing Vona of being gay. The response was that it's because the opposition is completely and utterly incapable of leading the country.

Also, Orbán recently talked in an interview on a Fidesz-owned TV station that he believes there is a Vona-Gyurcsány pact and that regardless of Jobbik's stance of rejecting immigration, the moment Jobbik voted down the constitutional amendment to actually prevent it, they put down their stake squarely in Soros' camp. Vona's response to this is that Orbán should take an extended vacation because he's so detached from reality that his mental health is in question.

Needless to say, much lulz was had in my house at Vona's words.

The day of truth has come. Elections are today.

Initial reports say voter turnout is record high with long queues and reached 29.93% by 11 AM. At 70%, Fidesz can really start worrying.

According to predictions in the past days, Fidesz will likely win but may or may not retain even a simple majority.

One Fidesz member of an election committee was caught signing but not stamping the vote of a voter who showed up in a Jobbik T-shirt. The Jobbik member of the committee was the one who caught him; the guy was summarily removed from the committee.

Turnout update: 42.39% at 1 PM. This is staggeringly high.

edited 8th Apr '18 5:04:31 AM by amitakartok

Looks like voter turnout might reach 70%. This is getting really interesting.

when can we expect first results?

Around 10-11 PM. District XI of Budapest still has a 1.5 km queue at the voting office and no partial results will be released anywhere until after all the voting offices are closed.

a queue? Wow...they really don't make it easy for you to vote, do they? The longest one I ever stand in had five people in front of me.

BBC reports that Orban will likely win, with a reduced majority.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43693663

Eh, I think it is too early to tell...with all those people queuing up the last minute, well, this might still shift the end-result.

Yeah, I know, I am too hopeful. I guess the best we can hope for is that he only gets a simple majority.

<sigh>

Well, that was a big NOPE.

At 80.76% of votes processed, it's a complete landslide victory for Fidesz. The opposition never had a chance. Even the analysts are shocked at the outcome because everyone was saying that such a large turnout is advantageous for the opposition.

Sorry, guys.