Epic Rap Battles of Historyyyyyyy!

But even then, the last surprise rapper will always "win", like Putin or Catherine the Great or Michael Bay.

Yeah, but the problem is mitigated by the quantity at least. The main opinion I've seen, for example, is that Frederick the Great won (something I agree on).

Yeah I should have expected this twist. After all, Wendy's is known for the Twitter roasts.

Also, Epic Rap Battles of History giving it to themselves? Hilarious.

Edited by akanesarumara on Jun 8th 2019 at 7:02:12 PM

and above: part of me agrees, the spirit of that definitely seems true for the most part, yet Lee/Jim Henson, Bill Gates/Steve Jobs, and Billy Mays/Ben Franklin are some of my absolute favourites of the whole series.

This is why James Bondv Austin Powers is one of the best in my opinion. Yeah Powers gets trivialised, but it pivots very well to Bond v Bond

And even then, Powers got some of the best burns by accusing Bond of being a rapist.

I'd actually like to see a Bond Battle Royal as a sort of sequel to that battle.

In my experience that while the third rapper in a 3 person rap battle usually is declared the "winner" I've found the last rapper in a 3+ person battle doesn't win in popular opinion. Ironically it's actually still the third placed rapper than is widely considered the "winner".

The one with the directors has Quentin Terentino as the third. That guy had such a quick rapping style, it almost didn't matter what his disses were because he just sounded cool.

Michael Bay, on the other hand, felt more like a scripted punchline than a competitor. A lot of battles with a surprise guest at the end are like that.

Edited by notriddle on Jun 9th 2019 at 11:42:39 AM

Yeah, I don't think getting the last word automatically means that rapper won. End of the day, popular opinion decides who wins.

This is especially true of battles where the third rapper eats into another rapper's time. Austin Powers only got one verse before Sean Connery cut in, which gave the other Bond more time to establish and flex his style. Similarly, Bill Nye and Neil deGrasse Tyson both get one verse apiece, but Isaac Newton may come off stronger than either of them because he gets two whole verses to rip his competition - and also 'cause Weird Al's a pro, but I digress.

And, as noted, the 3+ battles definitely don't always go to the last rapper. In addition to Frederick the Great and Quentin Tarantino, I'd also add in Lenin, the commonly-agreed victor for Rasputin v. Stalin.

In all, I don't think a lack of response from the competitors really benefits the surprise third rapper because I don't think the winner is determined by who get dissed on the least. The winner of a rap battle is whoever had the best style, the best flow, and dropped the best lyrical bombs. You don't get points for receiving slams, you get them from delivering them.

While that's true, I think the pre-written nature of these things often leans toward the last speaker being given what is seemingly thought (by the creators) to be the last word. Not always and of course the audience is always free to disagree, but when you're disagreeing with the meta premise of the video overall (ie. that Character Z would be the better rapper, that character W would be stunned speechless as the video treats them, etc.) rather than just based on their content or flow, that can make an episode weaker.

Edited by Unsung on Jun 10th 2019 at 1:41:44 PM

Gotta say, ending your verse with "you just got rekt" or related disses immediately subtracts points.

Yeah, hyping up your own verse automatically makes it less impactful for me, since it just feels like a waste of time. Of course, if the "you just got rekt" line comes alongside a strong reference or in-joke as the burn, those can be the most impactful way to end a verse.

It's the difference between "you lose" and a Pre-Mortem One-Liner.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jun 10th 2019 at 1:02:54 AM

Yeah, a good example of that sort of thing would have to go to Hannibal Lecter. "This little lamb has just been silenced!"

Lecter's second verse was pretty ace overall, though. I think a better example would be Thing 1 and 2 from Dr. Seuss vs. William Shakespeare, who delivered what I consider to be one of the worst verses in the history of the series. That "you gettin' upstaged, Bill/yo, you just got played!" at the end wasn't even a little bit earned.

Ah, okay.

Edited by TyeDyeWildebeest on Jun 10th 2019 at 8:07:28 AM

I was talking about a well-done final diss.

If you're looking for good final diss, rather than a pathetic attempt at one, I'm pretty sure Muhammad Ali would be a better example of that. Can you think of a better insult than bringing up Space Jam? I could tell how lame it was when I was ten and it was still pretty new.

Edited by notriddle on Jun 10th 2019 at 8:45:08 AM

That worked because it ended not with an attempt at claiming unearned victory, but because it mentioned the complete lameness that was Space Jam.

If you're going to go for an ending diss, the best ones can't be talked out of. Use facts, not opinions. Space jam sucking, while a popular opinion, is just that, opinion; subjective. Personally I think that's one of the weaker ends to an erb overall.

"I'd beat you in round two but that'd be unbelievable. No one in your family ever lives to see a sequel." Is a MUCH better example of an ending diss.

Edited by CryoJNik on Jun 18th 2019 at 10:42:34 AM

Random, but I was relistening to G R R Martin Vs J R R Tolkien, and not for the first time, I'm a little surprised why they picked the Black Gate (Morannon), the entrance to Mordor, as the background for Tolkien. I mean this is the guy who was once given an ornate glass tumbler with the text on the One Ring etched into it by one of his fans, and he used it as a friggin ashtray because he didn't want something adorned with those words of evil for drinking.

I can understand showing him with the Ring, Bilbo style, because 1, the Ring is iconic to his franchise, 2, it provided a very nifty way to present him. But the background? They could have picked Bag End or similar. Tolkien himself did say he was "a hobbit in all but stature" (liking plain food, mushrooms, good tobacco and the simple things in life).

The most dickish line int he series really, almost all reaction I have seen have this "oh no you didnt" kind of thing.

George Carlin vs Richard Pryor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bx7CFiWfU0

IMO, the guests kinda ruin this one.

I'd say me not really knowing any of them except the last ruined it for me.

Wow. I was just struggling a bit to put a name to Joan Rivers for a bit longer than it took me to place her, but that's the only one I had trouble with.

I admire the efficiency of referencing both the roofie-ing and the anaesthetic bit from his dentist routine at once.

These guys are a little older than me, I think, and I knew Carlin, Pryor, and Cosby from my parents' taste in comedy.

Edited by TParadox on Jul 13th 2019 at 12:35:38 PM

To be fair, she is present when she was far younger when she was a comedian so is easy to miss.

That last line wasn't well thought out.