Ukraine protests: Thousands march through capital
- over 100,000 by some counts
Ukrainian protesters besiege government building
Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU
Over 300,000 defy protest ban in Ukraine- "Fierce clashes erupt after protesters take to streets again, chanting "revolution" as anger against government grows."
What started as a protest against the decision not to sign an agreement with the EU seems to have escalated into a "Color Revolution" or "Arab Spring" style movement to force the government to resign. By some reports, the police are using violent tactics to suppress the street protests.
The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country. The current regime of President Viktor Yanukovich is part of that camp. The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society.
EDIT (2/24/2022)
This thread was originally opened in 2013 during the beginning of the revolt in Ukraine that eventually over-threw the dictatorship of the Yanukovyich regime and instituted democratic elections soon afterward. As of this writing, in the aftermath of the Russian invasion that began on 2/23, it is not clear whether or for how long Ukraine will continue to exist as an independent country.
Statements made nine years ago still seem relevant: "The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country... The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society." Some people have expressed the view that the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, beginning in 2014, never really ended.
The invasion is also a result of certain grievances proclaimed by Vladimir Putin, the current President of Russia, and used by him as justification for armed attack and occupation. Western governments, and others around the world, have joined together in condemnation of this attack.
While we do not know what the ultimate outcome of these events will be, this thread will continue to be made available as a place to record news, ask questions and express opinions about the "Crisis in Ukraine."
This map will help track the latest developments.
Do not post anything about the Ukrainian military movement and strategy. This could actually result in casualties.
No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.
When posting social media links, please (1) state the source [e.g. Reuters reporter? State-sponsored Facebook account? Civilian Twitter?] (2) clarify if it is fact or opinion and (3) summarize the information being presented.
Edited by Tabs on Mar 20th 2022 at 4:26:26 AM
Wasn't solely Putin's pressure that got Ukraine to back off from the EU deal. Brussels by way of Vilnius was giving a harsh short term deal (with debatable long term results) and on top of that had played hardball by asking Yanukovich to release his main rival just before elections. Nevermind the hardsell of November or bust.
Well, the EU are no angels, that's for sure.
Wasn't the former PM thrown into jail on heavily trumped up charges?
No, she was thrown into jail on accurate charges that were marred by a rigged trial.
As I said, Tymoshenko is no saint either, just A Lighter Shade of Grey than most.
There are accusations that her trial was politically motivated.
Radical Moderate
Politically motivated doesn't necessarily imply false — in this case, it means that when everyone is acting corruptly, only some people are tried for it while others are given a pass. This goes back to the old Soviet idea of kompromat — make the system such that everyone needs to act illegally, and keep tabs on what people are doing, so that if you ever need to get rid of someone, you have the information you need.
First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.
While I am sure that Julia Tymoshenko is no flowering light of goodness and virtue, unless they are going to arrest everyone who did what she was accused of, they should just let her go.
...so she can run against the guy next year? No politician will willingly commit career suicide. They should have kept quiet about her until AFTER they had Ukraine.
I'm not clear what you are saying. Who is the "they" in your comment?
HGW XX/7
Opposition protesters topple Lenin statue in Kyiv.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
The EU.
This protest just got real. The protestors are barricading Independence Square, tearing down statues, and occupying City Hall.
edited 8th Dec '13 6:13:00 PM by Ramidel
CNN's report and photos on Lenin's statue and other stuff.
The battle over Ukraine: Towards a new geopolitical game.
edited 8th Dec '13 6:19:24 PM by Quag15
Well, the EU officials have their own constituencies to answer to, and they have very little patience with what they see as political prisoners.
Then they deserve this result.
Eh, I doubt what the EU says to Yanukovych is having that much bearing on this, and to the extent that it is, it's just setting off a powder keg that's been waiting to explode.
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
I must say I wasn't really expecting to see pictures of statues of Lenin being destroyed in 2013.
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
I wasn't expecting to see statues of Lenin in 2013, full stop.
"Yup. That tasted purple."
HGW XX/7
Still plenty in Russia. But there's quite a few in Moldova and Belarus too. One geopolitical issue that still pops up from time to time in Eastern Europe is how to treat Soviet war memorials in former Eastbloc states. Most incorporate images of Russian soldiers, the hammer & sickle, or even Stalin, which many Eastern Europeans feel are symbols of repression and occupation. On the other hand, they're war memorials...
Not an easy answer, and its a topic guaranteed to arouse feelings.
Schild und Schwert der Partei
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Excusing me for this partial derail, but I couldn't help but be surprised at the apparent fact that Tymoshenko's charges are actually true despite the rigging of her trial. What's the "long story short" behind that?
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
It's not just in Eastern Europe. War Memorials in general seem to be the first targets when people feel like trying to make a point.
This is very, very debatable. Sending someone to jail because she signed an expensive gas deal does not seem justifiable, especially if said deal was not really that expensive compared to previous deals.
Imprisoning her for this is a joke and goes against everything the EU stands for.
HGW XX/7
Also, word is Yanukyovich makes her wear a golden bikini and keeps trying to make her tell him where the hidden rebel base is.
Schild und Schwert der Partei
@Marq: Essentially, for the gas deal, Tymoshenko approved a deal that technically required cabinet sign-off on her own authority, and said gas deal turned out to be bad for Ukraine. So she was sentenced to seven years in prison on a technical violation that was declared "abuse of power."
Since then, they've essentially been tossing charges against her almost at random to see what sticks. For example, shuffling money earmarked for Kyoto Protocol afforestation projects into the pension fund, and reopening a 2001 case for embezzlement of energy funds.
Hey, making Princess Leia jokes was supposed to be my schtick.
edited 9th Dec '13 5:20:54 AM by Ramidel
@FF Shinra: "Wasn't solely that. The EU wasn't helping their own case by trying to force Yanukovich into releasing the former PM or in the whole "struggle now, enjoy fruits later" mentality they were trying to sell to a country that was already struggling."
Sorry, what wasn't solely that? You mean the protests?
edited 6th Dec '13 8:47:07 AM by demarquis