My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic (Live Reactions & Discussion)

If "Feeling Pinkie Keen" taught me anything, it's that no matter how good the comedy is, you do need to make sure the story is intact so that you don't get any unfortunate implications.

She could still work in dream time, though. Ever notice how time often seems to run slower in dreams? I've had entire dreams in between snooze buttons sometimes. Dreams that definitely felt longer than 9 minutes.

Also, there was that one police mare in Manehattan who came to look why Pinkie was slamming her hoofs on a closed store door.

As noted, Luna can't be everywhere. Additionally, her job is Dream Warden. As in, making sure that ponies have pleasant dreams.

She is not the Dream KGB, keeping tabs on ponies whose dreams express deviant thought and then showing up at their door with Pony Feds to make them disappear.

Dreams are weird and it'd be super dystopian for Luna to be holding ponies' dreams against them as people.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Feb 21st 2020 at 8:18:44 AM

Her episodes with the crusaders suggest that she knows more about them than just their dreams, though. Also, these ponies don't have normal dreams, but those fictional dreams that are a lot more coherent and relevant than actual dreams.

but those fictional dreams that are a lot more coherent and relevant than actual dreams.

That's true of all dreams in fiction though.

It did make me wonder sometimes if Luna was keeping a special eye on the CMC though.

It did feel that way, yes. Would have been interesting to explore that a bit more.

I get the feeling that Luna always pays special attention to young foals and fillies when performing her duties.

One can't help but wonder how many kids needed her during the 1000 year exile (like Sunset and Starlight).

That is probably the biggest thing about Luna the show never addressed: how the ponies dealt with her absence.

Yeah. The Dream Warden thing is really awkward because it's a cool mystical role for Luna to serve that distinguishes her from Celestia, so it's a fun and neat concept.

BUT

Nobody really talks about the fact that she wasn't doing it for a thousand years. That's an elephant in the room that just sorta gets ignored. And it's not like they just forgot about Nightmare Moon, 'cause Luna (like Starlight) loves to bring up That Time I Wuz Bad in every single conversation she ever has for the rest of her life.

One could headcanon that Celestia was doing it in the interim, but then "A Royal Problem" made it canon that nope, that is strictly a Luna power and Celestia has never once done it before in her life.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Feb 21st 2020 at 11:57:45 AM

There are other things about Luna that don't make much sense in hindsight, even after the pilot. Like, how did nopony seem to know much of anything about Nightmare Moon, or who she was? How on earth did anyone believe it was just some old mare's tale? It was the former ruler of the land, and the current rulers sister. Those are not details that would be easily overlooked. And it's not like they could have forgotten about it, because one of it's central characters is still the current ruler, and the other has her face literally stamped on the moon.

The only way I could see that happen is, well, if Celestia actively suppressed that information. Never mention her sister in public, never discuss the face on the moon or what it's significance is. Note that there is a celebration for the sun, but not for the moon (not even after Luna's return!). And clearly that event is not recorded in history books, because otherwise everyone would be well aware of who exactly Nightmare Moon was, and the historical factuality of the event.

I don't think this was intentional on the writer's part. I suspect that they started out with Nightmare Moon being an unrelated villain from pony legend, and only later decided to make her Celestia's sister, both for the motivation of Nightmare Moon, and the twist at the end. But the discrepancy between Nightmare Moon being a pony legend and Luna being a very real historical (and current) figure was never resolved, which leads to the Unfortunate Implications I mentioned above.

I'm pretty sure Celestia did suppress it so ponies would stop being ticked at Luna. Again, maybe I'm just mixing it up with fics, but it makes as much sense as anything.

The dream warden thing is weirder, but if we can deal with our dreams naturally I suppose ponies could manage for a millennium.

I always thought Luna's effect was more of a morale based thing.

Like, Equestria managed to make it through a thousand years without her, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be really nice to have her back, nor that what she's doing doesn't matter. H Aving Luna there to prevent you from having nightmares is a massive quality of life improvement. Your life is just that little bit better if you no longer have to worry about getting a good night's sleep. How much more work may have been done because workers never have to deal with restless nights anymore? How many children were inspired by seeing one of their beloved princesses personally visiting their dreams?

People seem to think that Luna's role had to be this massively important thing in order for it to be justified. I never saw it that way. Doing something relatively small that improves the lives of everyone in Equestria on a personal basis is really cool.

I don't think this was intentional on the writer's part. I suspect that they started out with Nightmare Moon being an unrelated villain from pony legend, and only later decided to make her Celestia's sister, both for the motivation of Nightmare Moon, and the twist at the end.

Nightmare Moon = Luna is literally part of the season premiere. It's a core part of the initial concept for the show.

There are some things introduced in later seasons that don't really jive well with the initial concept of the show, but Nightmare Moon is literally as far from that as you can get.

This is about on par with declaring that JK Rowling probably intended Harry Potter to just be an ordinary kid at first and only made up the wizard thing later.

Edited by storyyeller on Feb 21st 2020 at 4:38:22 AM

I'm not sure if they can, honestly. These are the same ponies who obsessively micromanage nature. I wouldn't be surprised if they were unable to handle their own dreams.

What I meant is that it is possible that early concepts of the pilot were different. The version that we have now is just the final version. It would have gone through many iterations, and the first draft would likely have differed quite a bit from the final product.

Edited by Redmess on Feb 21st 2020 at 10:47:15 AM

When I say "handle" I mean most ponies probably managed to make it through life having a bad dream now and then.

Also, I don't think Celestia would have had to actively suppress history. All she has to do is not talk about it. A thousand years is a long time, plenty of time for stories to fade into myth and legend.

Yeah, but even then, how would you forget such a pivotal moment in history? It would be like the Americans forgetting who they seceded from in 1776. Even without history books, they'd be very unlikely to let each other forget.

I wonder what Celestia told her subjects after the fact. No one else was there to witness it, after all. And while everyone knew about the Mare in the Moon, none of them seemed to know who she really was. Which really raises the question: did Celestia ever admit that Luna became Nightmare Moon in public? Did she pull an Obi Wan on her sister and subjects, claiming that Luna was dead "from a certain point of view"?

Another rather weird thing about Luna's dreamwalking is the way that the later seasons have fairly clearly emphasized it over the raising the moon part of her job. Every time that Luna shows up or does something unrelated to the ongoing guilt complex, it's very clearly stated that watching over dreams, specifically, is Her Thing. She visits different characters in dreams, she spreads lavender around the castle to foster pleasant dreams, when she and Celestia switch jobs the emphasis is clearly in watching over dreams, and so on. By contrast, there's very little attention to her raising and lowering the moon — Celestia does it in "A Royal Problem", but it's over with quickly and clearly an afterthought to the real meat of the matter. It's made quite clear what exactly is Luna's chiefest concern and what takes up the vast majority of her time. Dealing with actual night seems limited to quickly raising or lowering the moon before and after her main job, and — notably — there has never been any indication that she has anything to do with the stars.

Now, in a vacuum this is all well and good, but it really doesn't gel with the reasons behind her canon Start of Darkness — which was very specifically due to ponies not appreciating "her beautiful night" and just sleeping through it. This, in light of her current characterization, raises two major questions: first, why did she have any emotional stake in it, if she has almost no impact in shaping the actual night in itself? And secondly and most importantly — why would somebody whose job is 99% interacting with ponies as they sleep be upset that they were sleeping during her shift?

That is a very good question. I don't think the writers really thought that one through.

I think that, again, part of it is that Nightmare Moon was written originally as more of a mythical figure than an actual character. But that is speculation. It would be cool if the writers could comment on that.

There's also the possibility that Luna wasn't thinking rationally, and how society changed. Back in like ancient times nighttime meant "go inside and go to sleep." In "modern" Equestria however a lot of ponies still go around at least for a while after the sun goes down, and going out on dates at night is now commonplace. Now ponies can and do enjoy the night.

Yeah, but even then, how would you forget such a pivotal moment in history? It would be like the Americans forgetting who they seceded from in 1776. Even without history books, they'd be very unlikely to let each other forget.

You're talking about something that was a) only 250 years ago, and b) part of the civic state religion that gets taught to every child and celebrated every year.

Perhaps a better comparison would be remembering who William defeated at the Battle of Hastings in 1066, but even that is a bit of an unfair comparison.

It would be cool if the writers could comment on that.

It's a shame Faust isn't answering questions any more (I presume).

Edited by storyyeller on Feb 21st 2020 at 9:58:31 AM

Harold Godwinson, successor of King Edward the Confessor.

Then again I'm a history buff, so I'd know that.

Edited by theLibrarian on Feb 21st 2020 at 8:58:45 AM

Clearly, the Princess Luna thing still existed in history books, since Twilight was reading one at the start of the series. Doesn't mean that ordinary ponies would know the details.

I always figured it was the latter — a guilt-ridden Celestia didn't want her subjects to know her sister had become a monster, so she made up that an evil creature named Nightmare Moon had "taken her away." It didn't get brought up because it was too painful for Celestia, and eventually the truth was forgotten.

People tend to underestimate just how long a thousand years is — a thousand years hence, it's entirely possible that the average American doesn't know the details of 1776, assuming the country even exists anymore.

Re Dreamwalking vs Moon raising: Luna's dreamwalking definitely wasn't part of the initial conception of the series, so the fact that it is incongruous with season 1 backstory makes sense.

That being said, a Watsonian explanation I just thought of is that ancient!Luna didn't do the dreamwalking thing much and it was only something she started doing a lot after her return because Celestia could clearly handle the moon and she wanted to set herself apart.