Portrayal of the mentally ill in comics

The sad thing is, the small percentage of crimes committed by mentally-ill people are also the most interesting crimes. Man bites dog and all that. The media reports on these crimes because they're rare, but since they're the only crimes the public sees, people start to think they're typical. It's the same reason why terrorism and school shootings are bigger political issues than the budget or police militarization. We filter out the everyday stuff, even though the everyday stuff is more likely to affect us. Of course, that's why there are more mentally ill villains than sane ones; the one guy trying to turn the city into a smiley face is more interesting than the hundred telemarketing scams.

It's funny, though; until the 1970s, I think Two-Face was the only Batman villain who was mentally ill in-universe. You could say Joker or the Riddler had issues, but in the world of the comic, they were just criminals with gimmicks who would get thrown in jail at the end of the story. They also weren't mass-murdering psychopaths, so you could see why they didn't get the chair at the end.

In fact, going back to the discussion on the last few pages, "campy" Batman was actually a bit more plausible than Dark Age Batman. He was a public figure who worked with the police to solve unusual crimes. The Joker wasn't any more dangerous than any other criminal, he was just more clever, and the police would turn to Batman because he could think outside the box and solve that kind of crime. They even had Batman testify in court on a few occasions. Here◊ is one example from the newspaper strip. Frankly, I wouldn't mind updating this kind of Batman; the whole "I feel the pain of my parents' death, and I will destroy the scum who did this!" schtick has gotten a bit old, hasn't it?

Regardless of the reasons, the end results are hate-speech, scapegoating, lies, feeding off of spiritual humiliation, degradation, dissection, distortion, violation, harrassment, and misery, and actively encouraging that m.i. or disabled should be preyed upon in every way 11x as much as regular people. To make mentally ill and traumatised people into convenient universal scapegoats is no morally better than to do it to cancer patients.

That all of this is "interesting" is not remotely a valid excuse. It is still just plain pure evil, no matter what the authors in question would like to tell themselves.

edited 25th Aug '13 6:07:47 AM by CodenameBravo

Wow, I'm really sorry I lost track of this thread... I agree with Codename Bravo very much. Not sure whether it's okay to go back and try to pursue that discussion further. ^note I will disagree with the diagnosis of Deadpool wit D.I.D., since that post is about to become rather relevant - again, only an amateur, but responding to voices and visions that no one else can hear or see is actually much more like schizophrenia, especially if there aren't shown to be periods where one of the 'voices' 'takes control'.

Rather, I'm reviving this thread because of this article, in which Warren Ellis discussing stories he's preparing for Moon Knight.

I'm not familiar with this character at all - is that an accurate description of his portrayal? Because, wow, that is some serious research failure in his history, and if Ellis plans to correct that somehow that sounds very promising and worthy of attention. :D

What will be the best way to do that, actually? I'd be most interested if he really does have dissociative identities, but for different reasons than those that were stated, and is accurately shown going through therapy to reconcile his personalities with himself. But I could also see for pragmatic reasons if his history is retconned such that he wasn't actually mentally ill and possibly was either faking it or actually misdiagnosed in-universe. (Again, I don't whether those would be in-character for him.)

Thoughts from the knowledgeable?

In the Bendis Moon Knight series, he had voices in his head - Captain America, Spider-Man and Wolverine - offering him advice. Occasionally, he would let one of them sort of merge with his Moon Knight persona, using that hero's weapons and fighting style. Not really classic DID, but certainly a comic book variation on it.

The character does have a bit of a history of struggling with his mental health. Even going back to the classic Moench/Sienkewicz stories - which were fantastic, by the way, well worth reading - there were occasionally stories based around the question of whether he was sane, and whether he took his various disguises too seriously.

...I'm actually not sure if that idea is boring or interesting. I guess I might have to try to look up stories by those names? :P

...no one else had any thoughts?

A while ago I was talking with a friend about which supervillains, if any, are actually mentally ill. Here's a few we more or less agreed on:

Two-Face. The obvious one. Even if what he has isn't anything like real life DID, he's still incapable of making choices without flipping his coin. His moral agency is impaired to the point where it's basically non-existent.

Killer Croc. Depending on the Writer, Croc may be written as a borderline mentally handicapped man who views the world through the eyes of an animal. When written that way, he's not only Not Guilty By Reason of Mental Defect, he may in fact be Unfit for Trial, as there's no way he can understand the legal process.

Bizarro. Bizarro, wierdly enough meets almost all the requirements for clinical insanity. His viewpoint is totally at odds with the rest of the world, there's no way he could defend himself in court, and he has no real understanding of the consequences of his actions. He might not resemble any real life diagnosis, but there's certainly no doubt that he's not responsible for his actions.

Zoom. The Hunter Zolomon version to be exact. He honestly believes that by ruining the Flash's life, he's making him a better superhero, and is therefore improving the world. That's a viewpoint that is fundamentally at odds with reality as we know it, and without it he would not commit his crimes. Throw in the fact that all his life trauma pretty much garauntees he's got some form of PTSD, and he should be institutionalised rather than imprisoned.

Any others we can think of?

Norman Osborn Depending on the Writer. Paul Jenkins' "Death in the Family" (or "Return of the Green Goblin" as the trade was titled) portrayed Osborn as a depressed, suicidal man trying to commit Suicide By Spider-Man - and the more outward "comic book insanity" that the Goblin usually puts forward is a front toward that end. It's a much more satisfying portrayal of the character, IMO - I can believe that this is a guy who has too much noise in his head to bear, and being a supervillain is a sort of coping mechanism for him.

Contrast that to Ellis's take in Thunderbolts - which I can buy as mentally ill, but is too cartoonish overall for me to deal with. The fact that Ellis specifically identified Norman as bipolar didn't help; I've met a good half-dozen people with bipolar disorder, and contrary to stereotype, they are far more likely to collapse from depression than to lash out violently (the only bipolar person I know who has lashed out violently, was more violent due to his medication than his disorder). (Honestly, Ellis seemed bored with the character - Norman's Villainous Breakdown spread over 12 issues feels very paint-by-numbers.)

And classic Green Goblin is pretty firmly DID, if not particularly accurately portrayed - but still definitely mentally ill.

edited 11th Feb '14 1:12:06 PM by TheEvilDrBolty

Avengers AI has made it official that Hank Pym suffers from bipolar disorder. And Humphries has actually done some interesting stuff with it, particularly in regards to Pym's approach to dealing with the depressive end of it - he plays a game.

Huh, I'm behind on AI and haven't seen that yet - I can definitely buy Humphries' Hank as bipolar.

Now that I think of it I've seen portrayals of the Rhino that, not unlike some portrayals of Killer Croc, verge on the mentally handicapped, though without the atavistic elements that make Croc's psyche so uniquely deranged. The original Blockbuster's an even better example; there's simply no way that he would have been fit to stand trial, and the crimes he committed were usually on orders from those whom he, in his simplicity made the mistake of trusting (namely his criminal brother).

More than a few of the big, tough, dimwitted Dumb Muscle types actually fall into this category now that I think of it. There is a point where stereotypical comic book stupidity reaches the point where you have to wonder "is there something actually wrong with this guy? Is some part of his brain just not functioning?" That's something that's explicit with Blockbuster I, Bizarro and some versions of Croc, and that isn't hard to infer with some variants of the Rhino. Any others spring to mind?

edited 11th Feb '14 5:03:19 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

In AI #5, Hank tells Monica Chang that he's bipolar. He seems to be self-diagnosed, but considering who he is, it's likely a pretty damned accurate diagnosis. He hit a down period after Victor Mancha's apparent death. So he's playing a game he came up with. An Infinite Game. There's no end point, you don't win. You play to continue the game. It's his way of managing his downswing - something that distracts him and forces him to think, innovate and be active.

There was actually a Rhino story that was an adaptation of Flowers For Algernon, with Rhino taking a drug that makes him a genius. He winds up deciding that it'd be better if he went back to being stupid, so he takes another drug that reverses his intelligence. So he actually may be mentally challenged to some degree.

edited 11th Feb '14 5:28:51 PM by Tiamatty

I've heard of that story. The Rhino, depending on who is writing him, really does walk the line between "below average intelligence" and "mental handicap". Whether he'd be fit to stand trial or could be held legally accountable for his crimes is therefore something that changes accordingly (most writers of course, think that he's legally responsible).

Amygdala's another villain who belongs in a mental institution actually, and is one of the few to belong in one to actually be in one in-universe (Bizarro, Zoom, and Rhino have never been institutionalised; most Arkham inmates, conversely, are psychopathic, but not legally insane). Wish the writers could get it right more often.

I think it even ended with Rhino saying he was going to make himself even more unintelligent than he was before, "just in case".

There's a Spider-man novel with Rhino in it where Peter realises that the Rhino is actually a little smarter than he lets on. Because he's surrounded by geniuses, he pretends he's dumb muscle so they'll underestimate him. Basically he keeps his average inteligence as a secret weapon.

It was a take on the character I quite liked.