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Ambiguous Name: I Know Youre In There Somewhere Fight

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ThePope Since: Oct, 2010
#1: Apr 10th 2013 at 8:15:16 AM

I don't know at what point this trope got punctuated, but it's completely wrong.

Whenever a character invokes this trope, they're saying "I know you're in there somewhere, fight!". I.E., they're telling the person to fight back against whatever's controlling them.

It's not a "I know you're in there somewhere" fight. They're not just saying "I know you're in there somewhere"; the fact that they also want the person to fight it is what makes the trope significant.

Therefore, the proper punctuation should be "I Know You're Somewhere In There, Fight!", as opposed to "I Know You're Somewhere In There" Fight, which makes zero sense.

UltimatelySubjective Conceptually Frameworked from Once, not long ago Since: Jun, 2011
Conceptually Frameworked
#2: Apr 10th 2013 at 8:49:34 AM

That's a misinterpretation of the title.

It's already a battle between the possibly mind-controlled villain and the hero, and the hero fights by attempting to find the good persona inside the villain.

The nuance is more "I know you're in there somewhere [and I'll find you and bring you back]!"

The onus to fight is still on the hero.

Off the top of my head the Sailor Moon Sailor Stars Anime is an example of this trope.

Edit: What you're talking about is more characteristic of where the characters will tell their brainwashed friend "Fight it!", i.e. the Deprogramming trope. Incidentally the Deprogram page misleadingly uses the interpretation of the title you are talking about.

edited 10th Apr '13 8:54:58 AM by UltimatelySubjective

"Nullius addictus iurare in verba magistri, quo me cumque rapit tempestas, deferor hospes."
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#3: Apr 10th 2013 at 8:50:12 AM

Also, the "correct punctuation" is a Stock Phrase; always a problem with trope names.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
WackyMeetsPractical My teacher's a panda from Texas Since: Oct, 2009
My teacher's a panda
#4: Apr 10th 2013 at 8:55:38 AM

It actually does make some sense. The trope is about a fight in which reminding the evil person of who they were is used as a weapon. They're fighting by appealing to the evil person's inner personality.

But the name has so many other problems. For one, it's dialogue. For another, it's wordy. Appealing To The Inner Self or Appealing To The Good Personality, or something along those lines might be a better title.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#5: Apr 10th 2013 at 8:59:42 AM

It has more than 800 inbounds, by the way. I would ask for a good reason to rename it.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
raithe Since: Jul, 2010
#6: Apr 11th 2013 at 2:14:27 AM

If the point is that the examples don't match the trope, that is a different problem from ambiguous name. The trope is about a fight where one of the participants tries to unbrainwash the other, not the specific phrase.

A rename might be in order, but I would hesitate given the sheer number of uses on the wiki.

Spark9 Gentleman Troper! from Castle Wulfenbach Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Gentleman Troper!
#7: Apr 11th 2013 at 5:17:26 AM

We could rename it to the exact same name but including punctuation, yes? That should solve the issue, similar to "Stop Having Fun" Guys and "Well Done, Son" Guy.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!
Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
#8: Apr 11th 2013 at 5:19:36 AM

The trope definition:

You're the hero and your friend is now evil - a fight has to happen. But the obviously weaker opponent is winning! The hero can't bring himself to fight at full power against someone he loves. They know that the loved one is still there somewhere. The hero will win this fight by talking the friend out of the evil influence, usually because of The Power of Friendship or The Power of Love.

The custom title is correctly punctuated. It is a specific progression of a fight scene, where the good guy does not fight as effectively as he could because he's fighting a brainwashed or mind-controlled friend or ally.

It is about the type of fight, not every occurrence of the stock phrase.

edited 11th Apr '13 5:20:34 AM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#9: Apr 11th 2013 at 7:20:55 AM

As this is one of the older pages on the wiki, we have gone over this over and over before the ptitle system came along. In fact, we specifically punctuated this the way we did precisely to ward off the interpretation in the OP.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#10: Apr 11th 2013 at 7:24:26 AM

Ptitle discussion

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Spark9 Gentleman Troper! from Castle Wulfenbach Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Gentleman Troper!
#11: Apr 11th 2013 at 7:45:27 AM

Oh, I thought it had no ptitle because thread title here doesn't show it. So it's actually "I Know You're in There Somewhere" Fight...

Okay, then I don't think there's a problem here.

edited 11th Apr '13 7:45:45 AM by Spark9

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!
Stratadrake Dragon Writer Since: Oct, 2009
Dragon Writer
#12: Apr 11th 2013 at 9:06:03 AM

...beyond the very overly long name, but that's Grandfather Clause territory by now.

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.
Spark9 Gentleman Troper! from Castle Wulfenbach Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Gentleman Troper!
#13: Apr 11th 2013 at 9:14:37 AM

I don't think we have a Grandfather Clause, because I've seen some Tropes Of Legend get renamed and this one is clearly below that level. That said, if it's a rename you want, you do need to make a strong case for it, more than just saying you'd prefer something shorter.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!
Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
#14: Apr 11th 2013 at 9:50:00 AM

We sort of have a Grandfather Clause. It's not rock-solid and unbreakable, but it does carry a good bit of weight at times. Incidentally, I fixed the bad pothole to "I Know You're in There Somewhere" Fight on Deprogramming

edited 11th Apr '13 9:50:21 AM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
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