Worm

Oh it worked alright.

So Leviathan's even tougher now? Threshold's just getting broken to bits isn't it?

edited 9th Sep '13 9:28:31 PM by rmctagg09

Welp, I guess the final battle's about to kick off. Time to save our game and spend all that gold we've been hoarding.

A few points, cross-posting from the chapter comments -

• "Earth Zayin, too, was gone, subsumed by the Sleeper." Jeeze, what does the Sleeper do? What is he, even? He's not apparently affiliated with the endbringers, but he's powerful enough to "subsume" whole earths?

• I find it interesting that Project Pet Simurgh/Bohu/Leviathan has been credited as an Undersiders/Guild operation. I mean, it makes sense considering who was involved, but that's not a combination I expected to see.

• “Four Endbringers, and then Dragon and Teacher to comprise the final group,” Ouch, right in the feels ;-:

edited 9th Sep '13 10:27:47 PM by gaunt88

I think Taylor could really use a hug right now.

Has there ever been a point in Worm where Taylor didn't need a hug?

So. Just read today's chapter.

D8

That is all.

I'm deciding weather or not to read this beast.

I've heard many opinions ranging from excellent world building and writing, to it's an interesting concept with bad execution, that the hero side are straw characters to make the villains look better, that the male characters have little to no character development, etc.

Any thoughts on what makes the series good? I'm still unsure weather to invest my time.

Well, other people may be able to say it better than I can, but I like how it ends up giving a lot of unexpected detail on a lot of its characters.

And I personally think the heroes can be interesting as well.

I'd recommend giving it at least a try.

Which reminds me that I still want to see what's up with the Red Hands and what their powers are.

edited 9th Oct '13 3:47:43 PM by crowlover

Personally? I'd say the worldbuilding, the fact that nearly every character seems perfectly rounded, the fight scenes, all in all there's really a lot to love. However, if you're not into darkness or are particularly squeamish I wouldn't recommend it, but to me Worm is something you have to read for yourself to decide whether you'd like it or not.

(If you do, I'd probably suggest reading up to the aftermath of the Leviathan battle or a little later, since by then you'd have a definite idea as to whether or not you want to continue reading it.)

I think it's definitely an interesting idea... whether or not the execution is 'bad' might be up to your personal tastes as far as fiction goes. But I don't find it so. I think the writing is pretty damn good especially considering the pace it's churned out at, but I guess some people just might not like the style.

I definitely don't think the heroes are straw characters. As for the second one... to be honest, I find it a little odd that 'male characters' are specified there. I would understand if the complaint was that all of them are underdeveloped, but just the men?

I wouldn't agree with it anyway... I can think of male characters who get significant character development. The main character is female, and her two closest friendships in the the early story are with other girls. A number of the villains are female. What's the problem with that? I think that's a pro, not a con.

Tangent aside, what makes the story good... great worldbuilding, great characters, inventive superpowers. I just found that the story grabbed me.

If I have any criticisms... hmm, in my opinion the latest arc or two has suffered a bit from pacing problems, and maybe a little bit of that old 'constantly escalating threat' issue. The start might be considered a bit slow, because the first few chapters don't really seem to represent what it's like once it gets moving.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and if you really dislike Body Horror and that sort of thing you might have a rough time.

edited 9th Oct '13 3:56:00 PM by LoniJay

(I would also agree with Crow and Loni that the hero characters aren't really that flat.)

I'd also add that something I love is the sheer diversity of powers, due to a rule of the Wormverse being that no two people can have the exact same powers, and the utilization of those powers. Besides Taylor herself, one of my favorites is that of the Number Man's. His power allows him to perceive numbers, and that makes him incredibly powerful as a result due to what that entails.

edited 9th Oct '13 4:07:27 PM by rmctagg09

"The hero side are straw characters to make the villains look better" - I disagree with this point. Yes, a running theme in the story is that the Good Guys aren't always good guys, but the heroes are usually well-developed in their motivations and reasoning when you get insight into their characters, and run the spectrum from "corrupt/selfish" through "well-meaning but misguided/blind" to "downright unquestionably good".

Similarly, I disagree with "The male characters have little to no character development". IMO there are just as many males with interesting character arcs as females.

I suspect that these criticisms stem from the fact that the story is written in first person and spends the majority of the time inside the narrator's head, switching to third-person limited following a side-character once or twice an arc. This makes it less straightforward to follow the development of side-characters, and means we see the cast filtered through the narrator's viewpoint. (That being said, the development is most certainly still there).

I suppose in the end wether or not the execution is bad is subjective, but I think it's definitely worth a read. Selling points IMO are the world-building, the unique superpowers, the emphasis on "weak" powers overcoming traditionally strong ones through creative applications and synergy, the fantastic way the author weaves the Myth Arc in through the whole story, and some genuinely nail-bitingly gripping writing.

edited 9th Oct '13 4:12:27 PM by gaunt88

There's also the fact that the heroes have a habit of winning arguments with the villains surprisingly often, casting real doubt on how justified various villains' actions really are. This has repercussions later on.

I'll start reading then.

I've read and enjoyed Project Horizons which is also dark, has lots of body horror and nightmare fuel, good world building, and is over a million words and still going. So none of those bother me.

Well if you can read Fallout: Equestria or its derivatives, you can certainly handle Worm.

edited 10th Oct '13 4:59:22 PM by rmctagg09

Let us know what you think, then

Sure. I could post reactions and thoughts every few chapters I guess.

Yeah I know other people have already responded, but here's my two cents on the questions raised here.

First, I'd say Worm is definitely worth a read, even a little one. If someone doesn't like it that's fine, but I think it's sufficiently different from most superhero media to at least take a look for yourself to determine whether you like it. Try it first, then form an opinion. Novelty!

Second, on world building. It's pretty good. I wouldn't say it's among the best world building, but Worm is firmly entrenched on the "good and enjoyable" side of the scale. Not much detail is wasted.

Third, about the male characters. I wouldn't say that the male characters on the whole are lacking in character development. Just that the ones we see often tend to seem less interesting because we see so much of them. "Familiarity breeds contempt." Regent and Grue especially. Regent gets better sooner as he becomes funnier and it gets easier to see his personality come through in his dialogue. Grue early on is written more as the straight man to the team, trying to be a responsible leader, and the viewpoint character crushing on him, a bad combination for making a character interesting and not seem Stu-ish. So he seems a bit one note for a long time. Then... Bonesaw happens. And people like me just enjoy the schadenfreude, watching him suffer makes him more interesting, and his character becomes more apparent after that as well.

Overall Worm is probably the best original web serial novel I've ever read.

I think it has problems, though. The "drawing from infinite dimensions" explanation for how powers work makes me go "Bleh". Tattletale becomes more of a plot device to save the protagonists later on than a character in her own right. Brockton Bay seems to have caught the same disease as New York City, London and Tokyo because apparently the only important things in the world happen there.

Still, minor problems that do nothing to diminish the entertainment value or engrossing nature of the story.

Not sure I agree with you on that last point... I mean, yeah, it did get hit with the triple whammy ^* The ABB, Leviathan and the the Slaughterhouse 9 that they hung a bit of a lampshade on, but after that didn't Taylor go to New York or one of the other cities for most of the important stuff?

edited 12th Oct '13 6:06:33 PM by LoniJay

@Loni jay: I still feel kinda guilty for telling you to open this in the literature section now that I've realises there is new media sub forum.

Well you live you learn.

So the series is a superhero story is it? Never really thought much about the genre in a nonvisual medium.

edited 12th Oct '13 6:26:31 PM by joeyjojo

Eh, I think it fits best here. New Media seems to be mostly podcasts, video reviews and video series.

And yup, that it is. I haven't seen many superhero novels either; I think there's another web novel or two out there, and Brandon Sanderson has something coming out soon that sounds sorta superheroish, but that's all I can think of on the top of my head.

"Superhero web prose" seems to be genre, yeah. There's Legion Of Nothing and a few others, and Whateley Universe, which seems to be more of a shared-universe writing... thing than a singular novel.

There are plenty of other non-superhero web novels, though, at least according to Tvtropes

edited 12th Oct '13 7:48:38 PM by gaunt88

Now I think about it the Wild Cards series by George Iwillkillallyourfavouritecharacters R.R. Martin is another one.

There's also Interviewing Leather (another web serial) and Soon I Will Be Invincible.

edited 13th Oct '13 5:27:36 AM by Iaculus

Oh and I guess Karma girl and Hot Mama by Jennifer Estep[1] would count, even though they're more your typical New York 'chick lit' romances in tone.

edited 13th Oct '13 6:20:28 PM by joeyjojo