RWBY General Discussion

So, maybe I'm reading too deeply into things, but is Ironwood's whole bringing his fleet to Vale meant to be a commentary on US foreign policy?

I mean, Atlas is a stand in for the US, and he's bringing soldiers to an outside nation without permission, so...

Either that or I've watched the Omni-Man vs Homelander Death Battle (previews included) one too many times and my mind's stuck on this:

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Boomstick: Yeah, that scene was awesome! And in no way a commentary on America's foreign policy over the last half century, butting into the conflicts with overwhelming force and only making them worse, then using those failures as an excuse to pour trillions into further involvement.

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And when you consider that Ironwood brought his armies in, they made things in Vale worse with the Fall of Beacon, and he was planning in sending them out had he went through with his Amity plan...

I don't know. Like I said, probably reading too deep into things, but what does everyone else think?

Thing was it got worst due to the army being hacked. If the army wasn't hacked but the Grimm still attacked, then things would have been better. The issue in the USA invading was attacking with no proof and not caring for the civilians, at the end of volume 2 the robots did help. As far as we know the soliders didn't attack civilians or trampled on civil rights.

Edited by rinrinboss on May 26th 2022 at 8:31:45 AM

I think its not quite commentary on that but more commentary on the, Condescending and rather egotistical view America can have on foreign countries.

Basically its americentric...Or Atlascentric take on things, even if in a more 'Well Intentioned' way. He decides another country needs there help and waltzes in without permission, does not listen when told its a bad idea and it blows up in everyones face.

The First man

It probably is commentary to at least some extent. Although, imo the allegory isn't quite complete, since they didn't have Ironwood assassinate the leaders of the other kingdoms in order to let Atlesian companies access their Dust mines

Sooner than I expected, tbh

Edited by Kardavnil on May 27th 2022 at 4:00:57 AM

Roll a Constitution saving throw to make it through the year.

RWBY: Ice Queendom set to release on the Third of July.

Edited by FergardStratoavis on May 27th 2022 at 11:05:02 AM

grah

Do we know anything more about it now?

I just love all the people saying that Ironwood did that without permission. Yeah, I'm sure Vale's council just wasn't informed at all.

Given Oz was part of that council, then yeah it looks like that is what happened.

The First man

Give me proof that Ozpin was part of the council. The same council who threatened to fire him after what happened with the Breach, the same council who,without consulting him, appointed Ironwood as head of security of the Vytal Festival.

Edited by Edward45 on May 27th 2022 at 3:14:30 AM

The fact that Ironwood and Lionheart sit on their respective councils as well. I doubt Vale's council would just not have a seat for Ozpin and we've seen that Atlas' council was also putting Ironwood's seat into question (and would have succeeded were it not for Weiss).

Edited by Psyga315 on May 27th 2022 at 1:26:58 AM

i still haven't seen any proof and I've already given canon proof that Vale's council addressed to Ozpin as a subordinate, not an equal.

Edited by Edward45 on May 27th 2022 at 2:59:26 AM

@Edward

I mean, that's honestly worse, given that Ironwood's first action after the Breach is to actively undermine Ozpin's leadership and authority and risk losing his position as Headmaster just so he can say, "Look at me. I was right."

Edited by reppuzan on May 27th 2022 at 1:48:46 AM

Well @reppuzan, then maybe Ozpin shouldn't have sent a team of first years with only a huntsman to take care of Torwitch and the White Fang knowing nothing of their numbers, resources and objectives. Just saying.

Ah, a reminder that the only reason Yang and Weiss didn't die is because Raven saved the former and the White Fang's lieutenant ("Finally, I get to kill an Schnee") made the absolutely baffling decision of not killing the later when she was unconscious, instead he threw Weiss to another car and started fighting Blake, for reasons.

Edited by Edward45 on May 27th 2022 at 2:26:53 AM

"i still haven't seen any proof and I've already given canon proof that Vale's council addressed to Ozpin as a subordinate, not an equal."

The rest of Vale's council was upset with him and were considering removing him, that is not proof of him being Subordinate, Volume 7 and 8 display that this is common with Council Members when most are upset with ome

And, its a canonical fact in the show, the Headmasters are part of there Kingdom's councils.

"then maybe Ozpin shouldn't have sent a team of first years with only a huntsman to take care of Torwitch and the White Fang knowing nothing of their numbers, resources and objectives. Just saying."

The team were the ones who have been trying to go to Roman, Ozpin pulled strings to help them go do so, while also providing them with a Huntsman to help. Oz even states they were intended to be 'Scouts', if Ruby had not fallen through the street she would have just reported to the rest of the Group that she discovered the WF base.

Also...That does not correlate? Ozpin having done that did not force James to backstab him.

Edited by Snoketrope on May 27th 2022 at 4:04:43 AM

The First man

"The team were the ones who have been trying to go to Roman, Ozpin pulled strings to help them go do so, while also providing them with a Huntsman to help. Oz even states they were intended to be 'Scouts', if Ruby had not fallen through the street she would have just reported to the rest of the Group that she discovered the WF base. "

Well that is the problem here in that it feel like a terrible idea validated by the plot rather than any soundent with it: Ruby got capture but it was villian ball who didnt tie her instead of grabing by the arm, or that Yang got lucky her mon save her, same with Weiss who lose in two or three hits against someone without a semblence or hunter training, if anything the whole deal help James since his fleet was there with the robot helping to take down the breach which probably give the consil the trust to go to him.

Volume 1 and 2 does not paint a good picture of Ozpin capability in that RWBY suffer the superhero trope of everyone else being inefficient in order to them being the ones who do stuff.

Edited by unknowing on May 27th 2022 at 7:25:41 AM

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

It's not really a bad idea, and given how Team STRQ were the ones Ozpin previously let do whatever they wanted in stopping bad guys and it's implied they were all completely successful each time, it likely would have worked. The only reason it failed in Ruby's case was pure happenstance. Had she not stepped on a structurally weak part of the street (which, considering every street in Mountain Glen looks the same and how they were unaware of the underground part of the city, can't really blame her), they would have most likely stopped the Southeast operation without much of a hitch.

Either way, it's better than Ironwood's "send in as many troops as possible to swarm the place", which would have given Roman a much bigger heads up and a lot more leeway to jumpstart the Breach even earlier.

Edited by ssjSega on May 27th 2022 at 4:34:30 AM

Sorry Snoketrope, you telling what is canonical or not means nothing. Tell me in what chapter of the show they say that.

Not correlation?.When your superior makes a decision so terrible that cause something like the Breach, and considering that Ozpin was ignoring anyone else(Remember when Glynda caught Ruby lying and Ozpin made her shup up?) like Leila said "she was making the kind of sounds with her mouth that Ozpin didn't want it" , your only choice is to talk to his superiors.

Let's not pretend that Ozpin wasn't "we do things my way".

Edited by Edward45 on May 27th 2022 at 5:49:49 AM

Is there a reason you're coming in out of nowhere with all this hostility??

Excuse me? Hostility?. When in my posts have I insulted or derided anyone?.I just want a cite of the show to prove me wrong. When someone declares that a fact of the show is true without proof, a fact which the show itself cast doubt over it it's they who have to prove it.

Edited by Edward45 on May 27th 2022 at 4:59:48 AM

Do we know STRQ did that? I mean raven and Qrow know about ozpin and the whole deal(well, not all but you get it) and we dont know how much taiyang know about the big secret war, so there is a problem that STRQ seen better informed about all the risk and issue about it while RWBY not only was not but were underprepared and Ozpin wave his hand about it anyway and two nearly die as result while one was capture and only villian ball prevent the whole deal to escalate more.

the fact Ozpin use a team of kids without tell them they will be "scout" place him dangerously into shady territory that the series barely comend about.

Edited by unknowing on May 27th 2022 at 7:58:11 AM

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

"Not correlation?.When your superior makes a decision so terrible that cause something like the Breach, and considering that Ozpin was ignoring anyone else(Remember when Glynda caught Ruby lying and Ozpin made her shup up?) like Leila said "she was making the kind of sounds with her mouth that Ozpin didn't want it" , your only choice is to talk to his superiors."

He didn't make a terrible decision and even though the Breach happened, it was still a better situation then if he hadn't done it, because it was able to Mess up the villains plan given the Breach was supposed to happen later.

He was also not 'Ignoring' anyone, he cut Glynda off because he knew she was lying but also knew why and that this would benefit them.

And like he did not just talk to anyone? He sent them reports of Ozpin for the last few weeks, and because they lacked the Context of the Secret War it made Oz look bad.

James taking over from Oz and not listening to him also results in far worse things then the Breach happening.

"you telling what is canonical or not means nothing. Tell me in what chapter of the show they say that."

Literally every other Kingdom has the Headmaster as part of the Council, in Vacuo he is the only council member with any power(So the Default king) why suddenly would it be different with Vale

"When someone declares that a fact of the show is true without proof, a fact which the show itself cast doubt over it it's they who have to prove it."

I have given proof, it's show Don't tell. What you keep saying is a shadow of doubt is later shown to standard procedure in Councils.

Edited by Snoketrope on May 27th 2022 at 5:41:58 AM

The First man

@Edward

It's one thing to criticize Ozpin. It's another thing to actively jeopardize Ozpin's resources and ability to handle Salem and the Secret War by removing him from power completely.

If Ironwood had simply criticized Ozpin you'd have a point, but he straight up backstabbed Ozpin for nothing more than self-satisfaction.

Edited by reppuzan on May 27th 2022 at 5:55:11 AM

To be fair, he was not happy or smug doing it, it's just that he reasoned "You brought this on yourself", thinking he was really the best man to take charge and Oz just needed to trust him.

The First man

The problem was that the Breach happened and the council wanted to know why it came to that.

Like, you have to remember that there were Grimm. In the city. That's supposed to be a safe area. And this isn't like with Mantle where they just dismiss it as a couple city blocks*, since this is the city of Vale and not some random throwaway city like Kuroyuri.

* Even though Ironwood is the one who directly said this, Sleet and Camilla are implied to think this too since they don't seem to be concerned at all with Mantle. The only two people during that dinner who were at all concerned were Jacques (who was just trying to take Ironwood down a peg by blaming him for the events) and Robyn (who obviously would be concerned about Mantle given that's her job).

Edited by Psyga315 on May 27th 2022 at 6:12:45 AM

"He didn't make a terrible decision and even though the Breach happened, it was still a better situation then if he hadn't done it, because it was able to Mess up the villains plan given the Breach was supposed to happen later. "

I feel this is week because in partly happen for the general inexperience of RWBY: ruby went alone and was capture, yang and weiss nearly die and in the end none of them know they were "Scouts" by Ozpin which is a very shitty thing to do, that thing goes well dosent talk good about him.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"