RWBY General Discussion

Huh, maybe I just disagree with your definition of "self-fellating" then. Well, nothing to be done about that, just a difference of opinion.

Edited by LSBK on Dec 14th 2018 at 4:14:28 AM

That's definitely normal for behind the scenes stuff. Not everyone does it, but it's nowhere near as hush-hush as you're saying. It's easy to spin 'I would have liked to do this' or 'I want to try to improve on this' without it sounding negative at all.

I've seen it with author's commentary on manga, creator blogs on comic book series, and the audio commentary on movies/TV shows (rattling off the top of my head - My Hero Academia, Life of Reilly, Buffy's commentary)

But RT are definitely not good with criticism. I'm pretty sure Miles has been able to talk about things they want to improve and feedback they've taken on board, but self-fellation is a good description of the shows like CRWBY. That's not unique to RT though, the Critical Role series also does really similar.

Edited by Saiga on Dec 14th 2018 at 8:38:31 PM

Not to derail the point, but it's Miles Luna (writer) and Kerry Shawcross (Producer).

Whilst I haven't seen much with Kerry, Miles has responded to criticism well (he's admitted several times the criticisms about Volume 5 were valid and promised to do better). This might be because I've seen plenty of people who reacted to criticism extremely poorly and that's lowered the bar on what taking it well means.

Then it's just Miles lol. I've seen different things attributed to 'Miles' and 'Luna' but that was obviously just people alternating between using his first name and surname.

Yeah, Miles' comments on volume 5 is what I was thinking of in terms of productive responses to criticism.

I dunno, I remember Miles having issues with a lot of constructive criticism that he interpreted wrongly just because people weren't being all that friendly and nice about it. In fact, if memory serves, Kerry is generally the more level-headed one of the two.

If we are thinking of the same instance then that was not constructive criticism, that was some asshole responding to a tweet that was for a completely unrelated matter and told him something along the lines of "stop fucking about and get to unfucking RWBY," then insulting anybody who had issue with him insulting people.

So Miles' point is completely valid, you can have perfectly constructive criticism (which this user did not have) but if you're an asshole about it why would anybody want to listen to you? I remember at the time some people here in this thread said that creators should put up with the abuse to pick out the criticism, but honestly that is not a cool viewpoint to have. Creator's should not have to just suck it up and be expected to deal with abuse, if someone has constructive criticism they can voice it without being a dick.

And for some reason now I'm worried that last sentence is going to come back to haunt me in a second.

Edited by Shaoken on Dec 14th 2018 at 10:00:21 PM

No, not that guy, This was over some youtube videos by some guys who are, admittedly, not the nicest people about how they do their criticism, but still do constructive criticism nonetheless.

On the whole "why listen to constructive criticism from people who are assholes to you", my personal point of view is that, as a creator, you owe it to yourself and your work to give one solid chance to everyone who's offering criticism. If they have good points, then whether or not they're assholes, I think it's fair to keep listening, at least until they're no longer doing constructive criticism. That said, I don't expect other creators to share my personal point of view. I'm just generally iffy with Miles' take on what consists "people being assholes with criticism" because of those times where he went "No spoiler questions" and "No negative questions" after opening the floor for questions at conventions, which isn't a healthy attitude for a creator no matter how you slice it.

Being an asshole can easily obscure the "constructive" part of "constructive criticism", though.

Unfortunately it still comes down to how it's phrased. Why would someone want to listen to a hateful arse? Creator or no. Hell it's why i had to consistently scrub my YT feed of rwby reviewers and took very long stretches of time away from this forum specifically during V 5.

It goes along with the ongoing "war against the PC snowflakes ruining things for those who want to say whatwver they want without reprecussion". You can speak without using 15 different slurs in each paragraph to prove a point. It doesn't mean you're an SJW or whatever, just that you've decided not to sound like an a-hole.

On a side note why do I keep getting zipped?

Edited by CryoJNik on Dec 14th 2018 at 3:19:55 AM

Lmao, he wasn't even talking about those youtubers, they just arrogantly assumed it was a shot at them as if he was specifically calling them out. But he was talking about the different types of criticisms they receive in general.

Why even bother with context huh? I can imagine which one bothered to rip the clip outta context

And the behind the scene stuff do go into far more then you implied.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61EeIvzfLcE Is all about how they created the Gods and how Go D has 3 separate models to portray his transformation along with its rigging and the VFX needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsPzLoxcLTM Is about the Apathy and how they built it. etc.

Protip, fatman and his ilk love to take shit outta context, try to be better then that very low bar.

Edited by Slater130 on Dec 14th 2018 at 3:21:53 AM

Was his response on the Rooster Teeth Podcast? Because I remember his point was not so much they were being assholes, it was that they were absolutely wrong about certain production things but started convincing people that their misinformation was correct. That's the only other instance I've seen Miles respond to criticism negatively, and that was rather complaining about people not knowing what they were talking about yet getting other people to believe the wrong thing.

So hypothetically if someone makes a video being absolutely abusive towards the cast of crew of RWBY but contains valid criticisms about story structure, does CRWBY owe it to themselves to subject themselves to that abuse to get criticism that is probably offered by someone else who isn't being an asshole about it?

So no, screw that noise. You can make constructive criticism without being a dick about it, no creator should have to subject themselves to abuse and harm their own mental health just because someone is too inconsiderate to remember they're talking about real flesh and blood people making fictional entertainment.

I frankly don't remember right now, but it must have been either there on twitter.

No, by no means. First because there's a difference between being rude and being abusive, and second because, as I said, that's a personal policy of mine. I don't expect RT, or anyone else for that matter, to adhere to it. People deal with things as they feel they should, I'ven o right to judge that unless it affects me personally. And even I wouldn't listen to someone who was openly abusive in a video. But just being rude, that I can ignore on first contact for the sake of checking if they have a good point. I'll still point out they're being rude, but I will listen to their opinion for the first time.

Again: I do not think any creator, anywhere, should subject themselves or be subjected to harm and abuse. That's not what I said. A good example, and this also counts as a response to , is fatmanfalling. The guy isn't the nicest person around, but on occasion, he does have some good points and ideas about how things could be done. It's worth listening to him once in a while to see what he comes up with, even if he does, undeniably, take some stuff out of context. He's not abusive, he's not causing harm, but he is rude in how he points things out. That's a threshold that I, personally, am fine with. If Miles and the others at RT are not, that's fine. I'm not saying they should force themselves to hear the guy out. I personally don't think it'd be bad if they did, but I'm not judging them for not listening to him.

Edited by TheLovecraftian on Dec 14th 2018 at 9:36:30 AM

If a criticism is actually valid, chances are other people are making it. And chances are some of those people aren't going to be dicks about it.

So I'm totally fine with creators being will to pay no heed to dicks, so long as they don't write off any criticism off as someone being a dick.

I'd say being rude or blunt to the point of being abrasive is probably the line. Anything more than that and I'd say it's not really worth the time to listen.

Also frequency of constructive criticism should factor in. If someone makes 5 videos being a dick and only 1 has worthwhile criticism then it's fine to write that person off completely until that ratio gets better. But we do seem to be on the same page now.

The attitude I've gradually developed is if every time someone mentions something is to shit on it (or near enough to every time as to make no difference) then I feel neither desire nor obligation to give their words any weight.

"Protip, fatman and his ilk love to take shit outta context,"

Fatman is a....sore point in many ways, he have valid points about RWBY plenty of time but DAMN he bury that shit into pointless nickpicking(and on point he seen kinda aware of that I guess), at least he used to answer my comments so who knows.

In Volume 5, Leonardo doesn't like relying on Salem not only because he's terrified of her powers, but she's willing to kill him once he's no longer useful. Raven's also terrified of Salem's powers but chooses to work with her nonetheless in order for the former to steal the Relic of Knowledge. Do either of those fit the criteria for the Properly Paranoid trope?

Edited by gjjones on Dec 14th 2018 at 2:13:06 PM

No. Properly Paranoid is for people can't prove their fears are true, but who are right regardless.

I'm glad I'm not the only one with concerns about this. Villainy and evil aren't the same thing. They're not even the same thing in real life, which is why some cultures have a concept of 'evil' and other cultures have not.

For example, the concept of 'evil' that exists in the First World has come from Christianity, and 'evil' is actually 'against God's will'. Satan isn't evil because he murders people or manipulates them into a darker path. He is evil because he chooses to oppose God's will, revels in it, and encourages others to abandon God's will, too. The word has degraded over time because, when you look at the Ten Commandments, things like Thou Shalt Not Kill are on them, therefore killing other people is 'against God's will'. Over time, people forget that the reason murderers get labelled 'evil' stems from the Christian concept of God disapproving of the killing of others, and into murder being 'evil' for its own sake.

In non-Christian cultures that have a concept of 'good' and 'evil', the definitions and how the terms are used are very different. And there are plenty of cultures where the concept of 'good' and 'evil' are completely alien. Murder may be a terrible thing in all these cultures, but whether or not it is labelled as 'evil' will depend very much on the philosophies and religions that have most influenced those cultures over time.

Bringing that back into storytelling (as that's what TV Tropes is concerned with), some stories distinguish between 'good' and 'evil' where people who have killed or committed other crimes are concerned. As a result, people who are murderers can be redeemed, or can be labelled 'anti-villains'. They can even be labelled 'anti-heroes' if they're killing in the name of the show's 'good guys' (be that the 'good' individuals, monarchs or governments). Alias is a good example where all the good guys are killers, thieves and (often violent) law-breakers — but that's okay, because they do it in the name of protecting the United States or the heroine (who's driven by loyalty to the US). Anyone who kills and steals for other reasons (even if it's in the name of loyalty to their countries of origin) are labelled 'good' or 'evil' based on whether the country is politically aligned with the US's own interest. The Big Bad of the show is quite noticeably a man who becomes divorced from any sense of nationhood and stands apart from even the standards of the show's other villains — and I don't think it's a coincidence that he's driven by a 'faith' in a 'prophet' whose visions are treated by the show almost as a twisted take on 'divine' purpose.

In short, there's a difference between villainy and evil. They often overlap, but it's not uncommon for them to be different, too. Where they do differ, there will be grades of colour (white to black) and grades of villainy — where some villains aren't evil but others are considered beyond the pale for the setting's standards (where the non-evil villains themselves oppose the same 'evil' villains the protagonists oppose).

Or what Tharkun said in far less words than me.

I don't view that as a magic bullet. All removing the Grimm corruption to Salem will do is remove the supernatural destructive urges from her and (probably) her control over the Grimm.

However, the crimes Salem committed in the eyes of the Gods happened long before she was ever corrupted by the Grimm pools. Freeing her of the Grimm corruption doesn't magically fix the flawed human being she originally was.

Separating her from the Grimm influence is, however, a necessary (early) step in the long road to giving humanity a genuine chance at potentially one day being redeemed.

That depends on how Ozpin views the world. The host that 'discovered' that Salem is 'cannot be destroyed' is the host that came right after the host that is implied to have sired the Silver Eyed Warrior lineage.

The Jinn depicted it (and I'm sure the full story will involve nuances she's deliberately not included), the host that appears to have sired the SEW lineage was also the host who changed the Royal Sceptre into the cane we're more familiar with (although I suspect that might be more akin to a transformation or a Hammerspace situation, given that the King of Vale used a 'royal sceptre' and came after the host that created the cane version; the cane is not Ozma's weapon, the sceptre — which clearly still exists in its own right — is the weapon, hence Monty once saying that we've never seen Ozpin's weapon even though we'd seen him with the cane plenty of times by then).

This host also seemed to be notable as the one that finally got back on track after lifetimes spent reeling from the fallout with Salem and the loss of the four daughters. He also, quite notably, had a wife and children of his own, and was depicted in a domestic setting — he didn't even fight the Grimm that attacked his own home settlement until he received a nod of approval from his wife.

So, while that host was where Ozma was brought out of his funk, his opposition to Salem still seemed to be limited. It was the next host (the one that looks more like an Atlesian business man) that became pro-active in dealing with Salem — the one that sought out the Relics and asked Jinn how he could destroy Salem.

My point here is that, between the apparent creation of the SEW lineage and Ozma's realisation that Salem 'cannot be destroyed', there's almost no time for him to conclude that the SEW could be used as a weapon against Salem's Grimm corruption.

There is now also the added issue that, where we originally thought that Ozpin was using SEW as weapons against Salem because of their power, and getting them killed in the process, we now have the strong implication that SEW are effectively his surviving 'family' — they're all descended from one of his hosts. He also didn't exactly rush to unlock Ruby's silver eyes (in fact, he warned Glynda to let them continue being children and, behind Ironwood's back, said that he was hoping 'his kids' would never have to fight a war).

In other words, we now have a great deal of ambiguity in Ozpin's attitude towards the SEW and any role he might see for their power.

My point here is that, even if he has at some stage concluded that a SEW might be a threat to Salem's corruption, he might be trying to avoid using them against Salem.

This certainly comes across as the case in the narrative debate the two have, where Salem's speech indicates that she believes Ozpin is reluctant to use his 'smaller soul' against her, and that she is determined to force him into a place where he has no choice but to use that 'smaller soul' after all.

If so, that means Ozpin's purpose for boosting Ruby years ahead of her age-group may be more about making sure she can protect herself to the best of her ability as fast as possible (in other words, it's his way of protecting her from Salem as best he can), as opposed to trying to turn her into a weapon he can actively throw at Salem.

This may especially be the case if Salem has a personal animosity towards SEW — not as beings who have a special ability to affect her own powers (even if that turns out to be true) — but as children of Ozma who survived, children he had with a wife who wasn't her.

I mean, think about it on a personal level — that has to be a kick in the teeth for Salem. She had four children with Ozma, and dreamed of creating an entire lineage from them. Instead, the marriage falls apart in the worst possible way and all four children are killed in the crossfire. Ozma then goes on to have what superficially appears to have been a happy life with another woman, from which come children that survive to produce an entire lineage. If that lineage does have some kind of supernatural ability that directly threatens her own power then that's not just a kick in the teeth, it's rubbing salt in the wound.

I can see Salem having issues with SEW just for being the descendants of Ozma she was denied having with him. And there are possible signs that the creators may have considered this kind of subject in Raven's apparent reaction to any mention of either Summer or Ruby (which tends to become bitter) — even if Raven was the one who left, I'm betting she's got some issues with Taiyang and Summer getting together and having a child.

I've come to think that Ozpin actually didn't want a direct confrontation but that Summer may have felt more like Ironwood than Qrow on the matter. Without the knowledge the Team Rubicon have recently learned, she wouldn't have understood why Ozpin was so reticent about confrontation and it got her in over her head — Raven was the one who has the most complete picture of what really happened to Summer, and it's the event that allowed her to learn that 'Salem cannot be stopped or reasoned with' (because I'm willing to bet that Summer thought she could reason with Salem, and that was her downfall).

After all, Ozpin's reticence in the first three volumes is identical to the description of the King of Vale's reticence in the run-up to the start of the Great War. So, I don't believe Ozpin's reticence for pro-actively dealing with Salem is a recent thing, it clearly predates the Ozpin host and, now that we've seen Jinn's version of Ozpin's 'secret', that reticence probably dates back to the host that asked how he could destroy Salem.

That would therefore make Ozpin guilty of Summer's death in the sense of withholding vital information about her apparent lack of killability, but it would not make him guilty of having groomed and sent her to her death.

Oooh. Grimlands. That's an easy way to describe Salem's location. I like that.

It's not simply that. Look at what happens when Ozma takes control of the host. The eyes visibly flash with golden light. While that appears to visibly disappear, the host's reflection will reveal Ozma's control because the golden light is still visible in the eyes.

I think it's telling that the host we're shown that appears to have been most integrated with Ozma, had golden eyes. And Ozpin himself, who also seemed very integrated with Ozma, started the show with eyes that were not quite gold (although some fans have described them as such) but certainly were what I would call 'brass' coloured.

I say started the show because Ozpin's eyes underwent a dramatic change in colour after Volume 1 — so dramatic, no other character has had quite the same degree of eye colour change as him. From volume 2 on wards, Ozpin's eyes have shifted between silver, brass-tint-still-visible and green-tint-visible-instead, depending on the scene. The only character who comes close to Ozpin's Volume 2 eye colour change is Sun, whose eyes went from bright blue to almost-black; however, Sun's eyes were eventually returned to an unambiguous blue shade — Ozpin's eye colour has never lost the ambiguity that was given to it from Volume 2.

The God of Light is the one associated with supernatural golden light, so I think the golden light in the Ozma host's eyes are the biggest indication of the God of Light's influence on Ozma's state of existence.

And I still think we're going to see a moment where it appears to be Oscar who is in control but a reflection of him will give away the truth by revealing his eyes are glowing gold. (I actually expect this to be a tactical decision Oscar has agreed with, so I'm not thinking of a nefarious situation where Ozpin is trying to pass himself off as Oscar for other reasons).

Edited by Wyldchyld on Dec 15th 2018 at 2:13:47 PM

I don't have anything to add to the RWBY You Tube critic right now but funny enough or weirdly enough todays RWBY Fandom webtoon by Acefishy (I posted the fist part a while back) is about RWBY You Tube critics. [1]

Yeah this is an area where I think we have different ideas about the setting. Since they were created by both the God of Light and the God of Darkness, the aspect of destruction and darkness embodied by the pools of Grimm are already an integral part of humanity rather than something entirely foreign. That duality is what sets them apart from the Grimm created solely by the God of Darkness which are completely incapable of doing anything other than killing, destroying, and otherwise acting as beings of pure id, and from the and sessile flora of the world created solely by the God of Light which have no mind or ego and are thus stagnant. This would seem to be consistent with how the pools of annihilation seemingly amplified the darker aspects of Salem's personality rather than acting as a full on Face–Monster Turn.

That obviously creates an imbalance, but on the global scale that imbalance was seemingly corrected by the introduction of Ozpin, who seems to have an imbalance in the other direction by virtue of whatever the God of Light did to his soul. This has resulted in a situation very similar to one portrayed in the creation myth where the two brothers were locked in an endless stalemate with neither party able to win. It was only by reconciling their differences and creating a synthesis of their contrasting natures that the two brothers were able to transcend the Vicious Cycle they found themselves trapped in, and I'm thinking the outcome will be somewhat similar for the two semi-divine immortals taking after the brothers.

It would be an ironic twist if this all ends up with Salem succeeding in her goal of supplanting the gods, but on terms entirely different from what she seemed to be after.

So, episode's out and, well, why do they always use the best design for characters who lasts very little? Tock has a really cool concept (based on Hook's crocodile, I guess?) I wished she could've been more than a device for Maria to lose her eyes. Btw, how did Maria get anywhere after losing her eyes in the middle of nowhere?

The new city was nice, and always happy to see Nora , also loved Jaune's family picture, best part of the episode. Also, the moment I saw Jaune's sister at home with the baby, I thought "I bet my ass she has a wife"

Ep's out.

• Cinder and Neo visit the Spring Vault. Cinder explains that while she's under direct orders not to kill Ruby, Neo doesn't have such obligations. The two agree to help each other in getting to Atlas.
• Flashback time. Young Maria's got the Grim Reaper get-up and a Day of the Dead mask. Her walk over the Samurai Jack bridge is interrupted by a huge Nevermore.
• With help of her weapons - two small scythes that can pull one to another to a point where the Nevermore ends up groundbound - and then a burst of Silver Eyes, the bird turns into stone and scatters. Maria is then ambushed by four enemies; a lizard Faunus girl with a thick cockney accent, sharp teeth, some sort of strenghtening Semblance, and a clock (and some three extras). Name's Tock.
• Sixty seconds later, Tock bites through Maria's scythes - since she got them together into a single weapon mid-fight - punches through her mask and then slashes her eyes out with her knives. Apparently that was the endgoal Tock had in mind, and now that Maria's been blinded, she feels she can get away with being convinced to let Maria go. Gets too cocky however. She nonchalantly avoids one of Maria's thrown scythes, unaware that they can come back to each other. Cue off-screen decapitation.
  • That is a lot of effort for a one-off character.
• Maria explains that she went into hiding afterwards, and even getting her goggles didn't change that. She says that a Huntsman's duty is to protect the innocents to the bitter end, and recently she's only been out for herself. Qrow's astonished, saying that he modeled his scythe after her. Grimm Reaper is apparently a near-mythical figure.
• Maria cautions them not to try and be like her, since she's only a disappointment in her own eyes. Ruby says she can still do a lot of good, like teaching her how to use her own eyes.
• Sudden phone call from Jaune - whom Ruby has designated on her scroll as Vomit Boy still. the party goes over the hill to get a look at the city ahead - Argus. It's a huge fortress city. The party's thus reunited.
• Argus is a joint effort between Atlas and Mistral. The latter has administrative control over the city while the former holds constant military presence there - it's one of the reasons why such a big city - and it's so pretty, too! - can be built outside the main kingdoms' territories.
• JNR had been staying at Jaune's sister, Saffron. Ruby's absolutely excited. Saffron has a baby - who Yang and Weiss are completely taken by. She also has a wife, Terra, who's a technician at the city's relay tower. That's also where the military radar is at; apparently she's been getting some misblamed flak over it being on the fritz.
• Either way, Saffron and Terra are happy to house the party over. JNR had been at the military base already and it didn't go very well. The very last shot is the gates of said base shutting off before RWBY.

Episode 7! I won't bother with a pun or a joke this time, "The Grimm Reaper" is wordplay enough for one episode.

Quite a lot happens in this episode, so this is gonna be a long one.

So, first things first, we get to see Cinder and Neo closing their deal to get to Ruby and the relic. It goes down as expected, with Cinder deciding to sneak one behind Salem's back, but what puzzles me is how they got into the Spring Maiden vault again (also, where's Vernal's body? Did someone clean up the vault after the fight?). Not that important, though.

Then, we are treated to a young Maria Calavera, the legendary Grimm Reaper, who... struggles to beat a Nevermore, the likes of which Ruby has been one-shotting since volume 2 or 3. Ok, not so badass. Apparently Silver Eyes are not enough. I like her weapon, though. It's a pretty neat concept for a scythe, and making them attract each other works nicely. I'll give RT this, they designed her weapon well and even worked it into the story. Well done. Also, one of those scythes is totally her current cane.

Maria is then attacked by a group of unnamed mercenaries, led by Killer Croc's younger cousin, who apparently can turn fully invulnerable for 60 seconds in exchange for having no Aura after that. They attack her, on a fight that is... serviceable... and then Croc-ette (I think her name is Tock, as that's the only character in the credits I don't recognize, but I like Croc-ette a lot more) slices Maria's eyes off in what I admit is a nicely done, gruesome scene. Maria then kills Croc-ette with a rather clever trick of her weapon.

It's interesting to see how heavily this affected Maria, and in turn see the worldbuilding around her. She was a legend, inspiring even Qrow, but on her own, her defeat scarred her so much she gave up. I get the feeling there's a lot more to her story, especially since she just glazed over how she had a surgery to regain her sight.

Sigh... Fine. I gotta do this. I'mma rant a bit.

Ahem. Done. Anyhow, after Maria muses on her past and present, the crew arrive at Argus, and go to Jaune's sister's house. This part of the episode was great, from the design of Argus to meeting Jaune's sister and her family. This is representation done right. No big revelations, no issues, they're just normal people. That's how it's done. There's also a bit of what I presume is foreshadowing with Argus' comm tower and Terracota, but for now, this is just a nice, sweet way to close the first half of the volume.

Aside from the rant above, I quite like the episode. Things are moving along at a decent clip. The thumbnail for the next episode throws one possibility into the batch of future conflicts, but I'm still not sure what they're going to setup for this second half. Also, Argus reminds me of Ba Sing Se. It's probably the huge walls.

What interests me most here is what Maria's story implies. Salem, or someone working for her, has hired mercenaries to kill/blind Silver Eyed Warriors in the past, and that might happen to Ruby as well. I wish we had a clear timeline on when Maria was blinded, not just so I could know how fast she shrunk into her current form, but so we could know if one of Salem's current associates was responsible for that. Qrow mentions he knew of her, so this was presumably less than forty years ago. And I can absolutely imagine Watts hiring a crew of mercenaries to do the job.

EDIT: Oooooh, I get it! Tock! Because she has a clock one her hip and is based on Hook's crocodile! Geez, that took me longer than it should have.

Edited by TheLovecraftian on Dec 15th 2018 at 3:53:51 PM

@Lovecraftian: Remember that Salem's been very specific about wanting Ruby alive; Tyrian initially assumed he was being sent to kill Ruby, Hazel remarked that "they'd dealt with their kind before", and Watts seemed to think it was a non-issue for their plans. Salem's got something different in mind for Ruby, hence my theory that she plans to corrupt her, and got the idea of how to do that from Summer's demise.

@sgamer82: Yeah; that's part of the reason for my thinking about the Gods; I should emphasize once again that I don't think they're pure evil, and I do think there are some really major things they're right about, ie that light and darkness are incomplete without the other; where I think they're wrong is how they place themselves above mortals, and that's a flaw that extends to Salem and to a lesser extent* Ozpin.

* I'm talking of course of his attitude that he alone holds the fate of the world in his hands, his refusal to share the burdens with others, and the patronizing way in which he withholds information from his followers.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Dec 15th 2018 at 2:38:36 PM