There was talk about renaming the Krugman thread for this purpose, but that seems to be going nowhere. Besides which, I feel the Krugman thread should be left to discuss Krugman while this thread can be used for more general economic discussion.
Discuss:
- The merits of competing theories.
- The role of the government in managing the economy.
- The causes of and solutions to our current economic woes.
- Comparisons between the economic systems of different countries.
- Theoretical and existing alternatives to our current market system.
edited 17th Dec '12 10:58:52 AM by Topazan
Lost in Space
I haven't read them, nor am I going to read them, so if you want analysis you'll have to give some details about how they present economic ideas.
Edited by Fighteer on Sep 18th 2019 at 7:20:23 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Figure of Hourai
Spice and Wolf less modern economics and more how medieval trade worked. Does have a reasonably long segment on ddbasing currency IIRC, but I haven't watched in like ten years (or whenever it was broadcasting).
Avatar Source
Oh, bother.
Yeah, neither manga understandably has much to say about modern economics.
Edited by M84 on Sep 18th 2019 at 10:53:43 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
Figure of Hourai
Arguably historical economic policies are still within scope, but I'm not sure anyone here has much to say about mercantilism or how the silver standard worked 500 years ago.
Avatar Source
Who Am I?
Oh, we have that debate every once in a while: esp. since the actual medieval economy resembles the economy you find in a typical fantasy work to no extent whatsoever.
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
Speaking of which, I find it annoying so many works set in medieval fantasy just use copper-silver-gold coin system.
Admittedly, as a writer myself, I would've done the same simply because how much more convenient to both describe and get it across the readers, but still.
I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Well, a good half of Eurasia and quite a bit of North Africa grew up on the idea of it. Heck, even though the Indian subcontinent and the Middle Kingdom blob of variance were only lightly grazed by Greek culture, they weren't strangers to the three types of metal coinage idea.
Although... I've always preferred the whole going- symbolic-with-paper-and-strings thing, myself.
Cowerie shells, though... those have issues. 
Edited by Euodiachloris on Sep 21st 2019 at 7:18:19 PM
Who Am I?
The most common "currency" in feudal times were chickens.
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
And butter. Also, a really good home distillate could open doors. <nods>
Who Am I?
Funny thing about "distillates", the more you trade in them, the less able you are to keep accounts.
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Yup. The reason why wise traders and barterers restrict them to use as crowbars, only. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
Speaking of accounting, apparently history of mathematics was practically interwined with that of accounting. Which shouldn't be surprising, really.
Also, in a more random note, during my childhood I was literally the only person ever who wanted to be an agent in my countries' equivalent of IRS. When asked why, I just said I found it really cool that even corporate leaders and high governmental officials feared them.
Unfortunately my dream was hopelessly dashed to the ground when I realized that I suck at mathematics.
Heck, writing and literature owe accountancy a massive debt. Were it not for needing decent records detailing shipments sent, goods received and swearing that the breakages, spoilage and/or poofed inventory had to be from somewhere else in the transport chain (honest, guv) very creatively in writing (so, I'm not liable: it was Set what sent the storm what messed with the mules!), we wouldn't have written poetry or fiction.
Edited by Euodiachloris on Sep 22nd 2019 at 7:30:19 PM
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
Huh. I never thought about that aspect, but it makes so much sense!
I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
It's one of the things I find funny: the push for shades of colour more precise than "red, yellow, white, black, azure" comes not from philosophy or literature... but, from traders and crafters haggling about what was bleeding meant when you ordered this batch of mosaic tiles; leaf green, spring green, teal green, sea-green, teal blue, sky blue or the flipping darkest blueish purple I can get cobalt to go if I get really lucky (it doesn't look like "wine" to me, but, since you're the idiot who is paying...)?
Edited by Euodiachloris on Sep 22nd 2019 at 7:55:25 PM
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
I mean... That's a nice narrative, but it's not exactly realistic.
We've been telling stories, including made up ones, long before we ever started writing them down.
Writing systems themselves did of course stem directly from accounting, but the notion of stories did not.
Edited by Robrecht on Sep 22nd 2019 at 9:20:17 PM
Angry gets shit done.
Yes. But, to get to "Friends, Romans, countrymen; lend me your ears." being written down in actual symbols, you need those nouns and verbs to be made into legible analogues. Which... ultimately come from columns of goods and services — also labels.
Writing fiction down needs the accounts (and excuses); making fiction up around the fire? Not so much. Fireside tales and epics always come first; I didn't say otherwise, mate.
But, writing things down changes how a language gets used, too. Which impacts how stories get structured.
Edited by Euodiachloris on Sep 22nd 2019 at 9:24:04 AM
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Putting this article from NHK down regarding the Japan-South Korea trade war:
The meeting was the highest level sit-down since relations between the two countries soured last year after a series of rulings by South Korea's Supreme Court. The court ordered Japanese firms to compensate people who say they were forced to work during World War Two.
The Japanese government maintains the issue of the right to claim compensation was settled by a 1965 agreement. It says the recent rulings violate international law and is demanding that South Korea correct the situation.
In the 20-minute meeting, the two leaders agreed on the importance of exchanges at various levels, such as between lawmakers or between members of the public. Divided reaction
Abe stressed that the cooperation with South Korea as well as trilateral relations with the United States are important over matters including North Korea. And he again called on South Korea to correct the wartime labor issue.
Japan's deputy chief cabinet secretary, Naoki Okada, was at the meeting and told reporters that the mood was calm.
On the other hand, South Korea had high expectations to mend the relations. Prime Minister Lee handed Abe a letter from South Korean President Moon Jae-in. The South Korean government says the letter congratulates Japan on the start of the new Reiwa era and expresses hope for development in bilateral ties.
Lee told reporters on the way back to Seoul that he had expressed hope of an Abe-Moon meeting, though he didn't suggest a time or place.
Seoul is concerned that the worsening relations will affect the country's sluggish economy.
Seoul has been especially keen to discuss Tokyo's tightening of export controls on three high-tech materials. Last month, South Korea launched a WTO dispute settlement procedure over Japan's decision. It claims the controls are politically motivated, discriminatory, and in violation of WTO rules.
But he took a more conciliatory tone at a meeting with Japanese business people, Prime Minister Lee said it was important for industries in both countries to work together.
"The economies of our two countries fit together like clockwork, and we cannot bring them to a halt. We have to ensure that they keep moving," Lee said. Prime Minister Lee met with Japanese business people on Thursday. The next move
Abe and Moon are expected to attend international conferences in the coming days, including the East Asia Summit in Thailand and an APEC summit in Chile next month.
The time is of the essence for the two countries because there are events in the near future that could make relations worse.
South Korea has announced it will terminate an intelligence-sharing agreement between Japan and South Korea, known as GSOMIA. The deal will expire in mid-November. Japan is urging South Korea to maintain the agreement at a time of repeated North Korean ballistic missiles tests.
And the plaintiffs in the wartime labor issue are engaged in court procedures to sell assets seized from Japanese firms. Those procedures are expected to be completed by the end of the year.
Moon suffered a big blow recently as a justice minister he appointed quickly became embroiled in corruption allegations and stepped down after just a month. His approval ratings are at an all-time low. And so as he scrambles to stabilize his administration, he is unlikely to make the kind of big decision needed to resolve these issues.
At the very least, the president needs to manage the situation so it does not get any worse.
Lost in Space
This feels more like a political situation than an economic one. Reparations, or "labor payments", whatever they want to call them, are fundamentally a question of diplomacy, as I doubt they carry substantial impact towards the GDP of either country.
Captain of the Dead City
I'd wager those political decisions would also be weighed up against the economic considerations either way.
"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Lost in Space
Obviously, if the political conflict leads to more serious economic consequences for either country, that's a problem, but the core of the issue is still political. I'm more interested in what's going on in South Korea's economy that it's struggling.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Who Am I?
Apparently, it's largely due to a slump in microchip exports to the US, which itself appears to be a side-effect of the Chinese-US trade dispute.
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Lost in Space
An interesting article crossed my Twitter feed today. From ProPublica: Trump’s Trillion-Dollar Hit to Homeowners
This involves some rather fancy math, which is why I didn't post it in the U.S. Politics thread, but let me see if I can boil it down.
In 2017, the Trump administration signed into law a tax bill that, among other things, reduced or eliminated the tax deductions that some homeowners can take for mortgage interest and real estate taxes. As a result, the after-tax cost of ownership of homes above certain values increased, meaning that potential buyers could afford to spend less on principal.
This has axiomatically led to a decline in the sale prices of homes against the previous trend (people buy lower because they can afford less), with a estimated loss of approximately 1 trillion USD in the net worth of U.S. homeowners and a 6.6% decline in total equity. This doesn't affect everyone equally, of course: it's weighted heavily towards people with incomes over $200k and home values over $1 million, making it yet another example of how the "tax less" ideology is self-defeating.
The article acknowledges the debate over whether we should even be allowing mortgage interest and real estate tax to be deductible on Federal returns, but notes that it is a distinct issue, since the Trump tax plan doesn't abolish these things but makes harmful changes to a status quo ante.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Dropping the housing value of millionaires is a bad thing?
i figured people in this thread would have an interest in them since they featured an emphasis on economics and wondered if they were accurate in their depiction of it
Bumbleby is best ship. busy spending time on r/RWBY and r/anime. Unapologetic Socialist