Sexism and Men's Issues

Yes, I agree, that it is horrible.

But honestly, idea, that I am in jury in sexual crime scarries me a lot. It is topic, where is so much prejudices, which I know, and so much, I dont know. So many psychological efects, which make thinking about it so difficult. So many sensibility to good reasons for conflict of two very important ideas (trust the victim and presumption of innocence). And it fall not only proffesionals (I know, many person, who work in police and justice arent so proffesional so they have to be, but it still something), but to relatively random people too. I am so happy that my country dont use jury, becouse I would go naked into court if I dint have better way to get rit of jury duty in similar case.

As for me, I have always seen men saying "there should be laws that protect abused men too", while most women say "the man must have done something to deserve it". I don't intend to stereotype all women, but I have always seen men being supportive of male dv survivors, while the women victim-blame the men to hell and back.

Not my fault that misandric double standards distress me a lot.

Edited by CosmosAndChaos on Sep 10th 2023 at 11:15:38 AM

Didn't we already go over this a month ago?

Misandrist double standard distresses you a lot or are you just looking for a way to hating on and dissing on women without backlash?

Putting "I don't intend to" in your post isn't a get out of jail card.

Edited by SteamKnight on Sep 12th 2023 at 1:30:35 AM

I don't hate women, I just don't understand why some of them believe victim-blaming is okay when it's toward males.

Some women believe that the same way that men or really people in general victim-blaming the victims of scams or cults. It's a sadly natural response to distance themselves from an unpleasant occurrence and thereby confirm their own invulnerability to the risk. By labeling or accusing the victim, others can see the victims as different from themselves.

I think this is a misguided way to view victim blaming. There may be some aspects of it that is 'natural' but how it manifests is very much a product of ideology.

Women are victim blamed to re-enforce gender roles where women must be 'protected' by men and thus remain subservient. Men are victim blamed to re-enforce gender roles which posit that men are inherently strong and thus deserving to rule women. Those aren't things that just happen. They're systems of control that are maintained by both conscious and unconscious bigotry.

Hmm... Yeah, you're right. Your post is better and more specific than mine at dealing with that question.

Often for the exact same reasons some people believe victim-blaming is okay when it’s towards women. Some people just engage in victim-blaming regardless of the gender of the victim, they genuinely view being victimised as something that only happens to people who deserve it, there are often religious reasons for such beliefs. Or they hold a similar set of ‘standards’ (normally strict adherence to traditional gender roles) for both genders and will victim-blame any victim who fails to meet said (normally impossible) ‘standards’.

When the victim blaming is gendered it’s generally because they hold a tight definition of what makes a ‘legitimate’ member of one group but a broad definition for another. So it’s easy to be a “proper women/real man” and such people aren’t victim blamed but it’s next to impossible to be a “real man/proper women” and such people are routinely victim blamed when they are victimised.

Traditional gender roles posit a lot more about the role of both men and women than just “women weak, men strong”. I’ll refer you to the sticky if you want to debate this fact.

Men are victim blamed to re-enforce gender role rules around less powerful men never acknowledging pain so that more powerful men can easily use them as expendable resources, men are victim blamed to re-enforce gender role rules that empower naturally authoritative, violent and non-compassionate men to have a position of power in society over non-assertive, peaceful and caring men.

Edited by Silasw on Sep 11th 2023 at 8:03:59 PM

a lot of victim blame indeed rise that we have a standard in more or less what is a proper victim and a lot of that can be reduce "is this make me feel empathy? no? well fuck it", like PTSD have become a aceptable thing for men to be mad and depress and only in the context of being a vet. Being mad for losing your sons is good on woman and so on.

Yes, the 'Just World Fallacy', not at all limited to religion, incidentally.

A bit o'sexist law writing I recently discovered in the Swiss penal code: Article 189 ("sexual coercion")

From what I can see, there are a few cases e.g when evaluating illegally obtained evidence where the distinction could make a difference in theory. I'd think that the easy fix would be to drop the gender requirement.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Oct 19th 2023 at 11:40:36 AM

Exactly. Imagine a hypothetical country where anti-child molestation laws only applied to cases when the victim is a girl, but not when they're a boy.🙄 That would be even worse.

The UK has a similar situation, our definition of rape requires the perpetrator to use “his penis”, which while allowing men raped by men to be counted excludes both men raped by women and women raped by women.

Or if the rapist uses his tongue or fingers.

I red our (Czech) Code Criminal on high school, and I found many problematic points in Catch of sexual delicts, in that age, and now, I see a few next. But there arn't any similar assumption about gender or sex of criminal or victim. I assumed (naive) that it is matter of course, especialy in the West. I was very negative surprised, when I knew, that it isn't.

Maybe would be interesting see a map of countries, where law included similar assumptions (prehudices), and where not.

Oy.

Apparently we did change the law just this year, but since the referendum deadline passed only three weeks ago the law only comes in force, I believe, on New Year. The Swiss legislative process - not a paragon of searchability.

Aside of that, this article in a news magazine and this parliamentary report note that this formulation of Swiss law is/was unusual in Europe.

So the last Philosophy Tube video essay mentioned that those airport body scanners have a button that the TSA presses to determine what 'masses' to expect on your chest and groin, literally male vs female, based on what they see. I'm at an airport now and I can confirm, the grope button is real. It's nicknamed the grope button because transgender, nonbinary, intersex, or just gender nonconforming people are disproportionately groped as a result of this design.

Maybe I will be a tad toxic here. But, there is a serious need for women to exercise their empathy towards men. And for men to be supportive of each other...

Well... yeah. Damn straight. I'm sick of abused men not getting as much support as abused women do and/or getting victim-blamed.

Edited by CosmosAndChaos on Nov 6th 2023 at 7:32:39 AM

Tangentially related, but recently I started working full time at home - I'm a novelist - and it led me to do housework more frequently, cooking, cleaning, washing dishes and clothes, etc.

And I gotta say, I am glad to live in a time period and society where men are not frowned upon for doing houseworks by themselves.

I can understand how you feel. Similarly, I’d be in real trouble in a time when men were expecting to get married and start a family. I’m just that socially inept.

That's right. Good to see society has evolved mostly for the better for both men and women.

But I'm still unsure if I as a man should be liking cute things as much as I do. Deep down, I know there's nothing wrong with that, but I even use the heart emoji(❤) to react to cute and/or wholesome things, something I still am unsure if it's okay for men to do.

Masculinity is what you make it.

And even if you identify as male, nobody is obliged to be masculine at all times and in all ways. It's optional.

Or at least it ought to be. Sometimes culture thinks differently.

A reminder for everyone, it’s International Men’s Day on the 19th, hopefully your local area are doing things.

My work has pretty much an all day thing scheduled, we’ve got an hour talk on Missandry, an hour on mental health and suicide prevention, an hour on male victims of domestic violence and an hour on Testicular Cancer and other medical conditions.