MOD NOTE: Please note the following part of the forum rules:
The initial OP posted below covers it well enough: the premise of this thread is that men's issues exist. Don't bother posting if you don't believe there is such a thing.
Here's hoping this isn't considered too redundant. I've noticed that our existing threads about sexism tend to get bogged down in Oppression Olympics or else wildly derailed, so I thought I'd make a thread specifically to talk about discrimination issues that disproportionately affect men.
No Oppression Olympics here, okay? No saying "But that's not important because women suffer X which is worse!" And no discussing these issues purely in terms of how much better women have it. Okay? If the discussion cannot meaningfully proceed without making a comparison to male and female treatment, that's fine, but on the whole I want this thread to be about how men are harmed by society and how we can fix it. Issues like:
- The male-only draft (in countries that have one)
- Circumcision
- Cavalier attitudes toward men's pain and sickness, AKA "Walk it off!"
- The Success Myth, which defines a man's desirability by his material success. Also The Myth of Men Not Being Hot, which denies that men can be sexually attractive as male beings.
- Sexual abuse of men.
- Family law.
- General attitudes that men are dangerous or untrustworthy.
I could go on making the list, but I think you get the idea.
Despite what you might have heard about feminists not caring about men, it's not true. I care about men. Patriarchy sucks for them as much as it sucks for women, in a lot of ways. So I'm putting my keyboard where my mouth is and making a thread for us to all care about men.
Also? If you're male and think of something as a men's issue, by golly that makes it a men's issue fit for inclusion in this thread. I might disagree with you as to the solution, but as a woman I'm not going to tell you you have no right to be concerned about it. No "womansplaining" here.
Edited by nombretomado on Dec 15th 2019 at 5:19:34 AM
The Wandering Geek
Hence why she's seeking a divorce.
Every time someone claims to be realistic is a dour cynic in disguise.
Oh no, its even worse, he's the one who got a lawyer first and divorced her first and wanted her and his kids to not get any money from him. He's SCUM
Edited by AegisP on Apr 28th 2023 at 11:53:02 AM
Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
You know what?
There's nothing in recent media that brings me more joy than seeing right-wing misogynist media figures having their lives crumble apart.
Last year Andrew Tate and this year Steven Crowder...the sheer degree of schadenfreude I'm experiencing is unreal. 
The Wandering Geek
Don't we all?
The Draftsman of Doom
Andrew Tate and his ilk don't actually care about other men. They just pretend to. They really only make excuses for misogyny.
Edited by SkyCat32 on May 8th 2023 at 9:10:31 AM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
The Wandering Geek
That's the thing, these sort of people only care their type of men, not all. In other words: Egocentric sociopaths.
Every time someone claims to be realistic is a dour cynic in disguise.
Planeswalker
The solution to the "should children of rape get child support" question should be free abortion at any time during the pregnancy. But yeah, Republicans have made it their hill they're going to die on because who cares about women's rights.
In a just world there shouldn't be any possibility of a rapist getting custody of a child, and rapists would be forced to pay child support. But in real life, it's hard enough getting non-criminals to pay.
Oissu!
A procrastination in of itself
I’m not sure how that works when the rapist is the one that gets pregnant.
The only way abortion plays into things would be if we gave rape victims the ability to force their rapist to terminate a resulting pregnancy. Which has humour is moral and bodily autonomy issues with it before you consider the logistics problems.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Planeswalker
If the rapist is the one who gets pregnant and they do not want an abortion, their parental rights should immediately be severed at birth and the child should be put up for adoption. Forcing a victim to pay child support, even if it's meant for the child's sake, is revictimizing them.
But I think the legal punishment for rape should be way, way more severe than most rape laws are currently.
Edited by PhiSat on May 8th 2023 at 9:24:06 AM
Oissu!
Forcing a victim to pay child support, even if it's meant for the child's sake, is revictimizing them.
Deciding that a child doesn't need to be financially supported is victimizing them. Child support is always for the child's sake, it's terrible that a rape victim would have to pay but it's also not good to throw a child under the bus because someone else did something wrong.
With situations like there is no obvious answer, someone is going to have to suffer. Either the innocent victim or the equally innocent child. Given that the latter is completely helpless and thus has no recourse I am firmly of the opinion that they shouldn't be made to pay the price. It's an ugly situation but that's what happens when society doesn't ensure the wellbeing of all its members are met.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on May 8th 2023 at 10:35:40 AM
"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
A procrastination in of itself
And leaving them in the custody of a rapist (in this specific case a child rapist) isn’t?
The foster system isn’t great, but when the bar is “literal child rapist” I think the system is going to be better for the kid.
Edited by Silasw on May 8th 2023 at 6:37:59 PM
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I edited my post, my objection was with the child support part.
A procrastination in of itself
That’s slightly better. But you’re still forcing someone to pick up the tab for a child they were forced into having. The state can and should step in to provide the necessary financial support for whoever is caring for the resulting child. Shit, you could make the rapist pay double child support on the basis that they made the decision to have the child twice (once for themselves and again by overruling the right to decide of the other person).
To flip this around slightly, if a women was raped, forced to carry a child to term and then did not wish to have custody of the child, would we push for them to pay child support? I’d certainly hope not, though I’m prepared to be disappointed by examples of exactly that happening.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Planeswalker
Severing the rapist's parental rights and taking the baby as a newborn would make those babies' chances of being adopted into loving families significantly higher than any other demographic. Most prospective parents are looking for babies and usually the barrier to those babies being adopted is that the system prioritizes reunification over getting the child into a stable, caring home. Stubborn parents refusing to give up their parental rights when they haven't had contact with a child for years or are blatantly unfit leads to so much adoption heartbreak.
I find it disgusting that a rapist is given any parental rights at all. Being convicted of rape should by all means immediately terminate someone's parental rights to any children conceived of said rape.
Edited by PhiSat on May 8th 2023 at 11:47:23 AM
Oissu!
The Draftsman of Doom
My sentiments exactly.
Making a predator pay double is exponentially better of a solution than making a survivor pay at all. I wish I had thought of it.
Edited by SkyCat32 on May 8th 2023 at 1:53:39 PM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
That’s slightly better. But you’re still forcing someone to pick up the tab for a child they were forced into having. The state can and should step in to provide the necessary financial support for whoever is caring for the resulting child. Shit, you could make the rapist pay double child support on the basis that they made the decision to have the child twice (once for themselves and again by overruling the right to decide of the other person).
To flip this around slightly, if a women was raped, forced to carry a child to term and then did not wish to have custody of the child, would we push for them to pay child support? I’d certainly hope not, though I’m prepared to be disappointed by examples of exactly that happening.
My standard is applied consistently, if a woman was raped and her support was needed for the child to have a good life then the law should mandate it. I put a premium on children's wellbeing.
Obviously I agree that the state handling it would be preferable but so long as it is necessary for child support to exist then it's unacceptably harmful for some children to be exempt just because one of their parent was raped. Is it fair to the rape survivor? No, not at all. But life is often not fair, the harm of letting a child suffer is greater then the harm of making a rape victim pay for that child. Thus it's a lesser evil.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on May 8th 2023 at 10:59:15 AM
"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
Planeswalker
If a child in that situation was adopted by another family (not fostered) because the rapist's parental rights were severed and the victim also agreed to terminate parental rights, they wouldn't need to be provided child support.
Oissu!
Agent JC(Just Collateral)
I do not like the idea that the victim who are not even convicted of any charges have to pay for alimony just because kids are on the stake. I do think that protection of children is paramount but not enough to warrant victims to be punished. There should be another way then "victims pay or child suffer" system.
Does that mean I don't get the job?
Jer gets all the girls
Yeah. Forcing a victim to suffer due being the victim of a crime is just plain evil, sorry.
Everybody's all "Jerry's old and feeble" till they see him run down a skyscraper and hijack a helicopter mid-flight.
Someone on reddit
pointed out a trend where celebrity men who lost their virginity as boys to older women (read: were sexually abused) later had domestic abuse and sexual scandals.
Edited by windleopard on May 9th 2023 at 9:15:19 AM
My understanding is that one major gender difference in rape victims is that while women/girls are more liable to develop traumatic disorders, men/boys often develop abnormal sexual behaviours. If the above observation is correct, this might explain why.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Oh, bother.
The former turn self-destructive, while the latter turn their destructive tendencies outwards.
It ties into society's expectations I guess. Women are taught from a young age to internalize everything while men are taught from a young age to be more aggressive. Though women are also taught to be more willing to have emotional intimacy with other women while men are also taught to avoid emotional intimacy with other men like the plague.
The end result is that women self-harm but at least have close friends that can help them through it, while men harm others and have no friends they can turn to for actual help.
I've mentioned before that one of the major problems men face — arguably the root of all of the rest mentioned in this thread so far — is that we don't have enough actual close friendships.
Edited by M84 on May 9th 2023 at 2:50:26 AM
Disgusted, but not surprised
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
Team Rocket Boss.
You joke but that's actually a legit reason for less social activity these days. Always pushing you to work and taking away your free time.
I count myself lucky that I've got lots of male and female friends that I can do lots of dumb shit with and consider myself close with.
Though in my highschool experience, we were always expected to make friends with the same sex and trying to approach the other sex platonically was seen as a desperate attempt for a date.
Blargh, I value my platonic relationships. Helps keep my sanity.
Edited by RedHunter543 on May 9th 2023 at 6:33:37 PM
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
Yeah…not really a surprise.
Disgusted, but not surprised