MOD NOTE: Please note the following part of the forum rules:
The initial OP posted below covers it well enough: the premise of this thread is that men's issues exist. Don't bother posting if you don't believe there is such a thing.
Here's hoping this isn't considered too redundant. I've noticed that our existing threads about sexism tend to get bogged down in Oppression Olympics or else wildly derailed, so I thought I'd make a thread specifically to talk about discrimination issues that disproportionately affect men.
No Oppression Olympics here, okay? No saying "But that's not important because women suffer X which is worse!" And no discussing these issues purely in terms of how much better women have it. Okay? If the discussion cannot meaningfully proceed without making a comparison to male and female treatment, that's fine, but on the whole I want this thread to be about how men are harmed by society and how we can fix it. Issues like:
- The male-only draft (in countries that have one)
- Circumcision
- Cavalier attitudes toward men's pain and sickness, AKA "Walk it off!"
- The Success Myth, which defines a man's desirability by his material success. Also The Myth of Men Not Being Hot, which denies that men can be sexually attractive as male beings.
- Sexual abuse of men.
- Family law.
- General attitudes that men are dangerous or untrustworthy.
I could go on making the list, but I think you get the idea.
Despite what you might have heard about feminists not caring about men, it's not true. I care about men. Patriarchy sucks for them as much as it sucks for women, in a lot of ways. So I'm putting my keyboard where my mouth is and making a thread for us to all care about men.
Also? If you're male and think of something as a men's issue, by golly that makes it a men's issue fit for inclusion in this thread. I might disagree with you as to the solution, but as a woman I'm not going to tell you you have no right to be concerned about it. No "womansplaining" here.
Edited by nombretomado on Dec 15th 2019 at 5:19:34 AM
Queen of Good Things, Honest
I was agreeing with you.
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
Oh, I see, my apologies.
"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
Queen of Good Things, Honest
It happens. I could have been more clear.
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
And regardless of anything, this was never going to hurt her.
She's portrayed herself as a 'charming hustler' since she first appeared and this is right in line with that.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
And, yeah, sorry, for some reason I read understandable as acceptable, which are two very different things.
Edited by deludedmusings on Apr 5th 2019 at 10:22:32 PM
It's No problem.
Considering my misunderstanding of Tobias I'd be a giant hypocrite to choose to be salty 
I really don't find anything understandable about drugging people unconscious and leaving them in dangerous, potentially fatal situations. This is way beyond stealing, it's taking peoples autonomy and potentially lethal. Her excuse doesn't cut it.
"In 900 years of time and space I've never met anyone who wasn't important."
I see absolutely no reason to believe that it's "way beyond stealing", she was drugging them in hotel rooms. Bad? Certainly but I don't see any reason to believe it's as dangerous as you're suggesting.
She robbed them through drugging them in hotel rooms instead of robbing them at gunpoint or burglarizing their homes, treating the former as fundamentally worse then the latter makes little sense.
"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
Queen of Good Things, Honest
"Dangerous, potentially fatal situations"?
There are few safer situations a person can be in than alone in a locked room.
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
Well first of all there's the drugging, which, yeah, not too hard for the dosage and drugs to have undesired effects.
Second, there is the bit where they are locked in a room, alone, with no way out. Sure nobody is going to go in to hurt or murder them but they aren't gonna get out easily either, now are they. Granted, that room isn't going to be in the middle of nowhere with nobody around to hear the pounding, but still.
Uh, we're talking about hotels. Doors can be unlocked from the inside.
She wasn't locking them in some kind of weird dungeon.
"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
I seriously feel like people wouldn't be nearly so quick to make this seem like less than it is if the situation was reversed. Waking up alone and drugged is fucking terrifying, and she should be punished for it. Mixing drugs, alcohol, with possible pre-existing illnesses could kill someone. She's lucky a victim didn't die.
"In 900 years of time and space I've never met anyone who wasn't important."
Point taken, I forgot to factor in they may have had the key. Something about the description of what happened made me think they didn't, dunno why.
I completely second both the scary and the potentially dangerous aspect.
Queen of Good Things, Honest
You don't need a key to open a hotel room door from the inside. They only lock in one direction. You need a key to enter, but can leave at any time.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Apr 6th 2019 at 9:40:45 AM
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
Yeah goes to show how unfamiliar I am with hotels xdxd My bad.
Queen of Good Things, Honest
It happens. I've got a lot of experience with them because I recently spent a year homeless, and my friend and I were in and out of a meth-house hotel during that time because it was cheap.
She was, herself, drugged and robbed during that time. She invited a friend she'd made in while I was at work and he spiked her drink, then took off with our PS 3.
It sucked, but on the scale of things that both could and have happened to both of us in the past, it was pretty tame on the Things That Suck scale.
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
Oh, bother.
A Cracked article written by someone who spent a few years as an incel.
6 Ways You Can Get Sucked Into The 'Incel' Trap
- Eventually, Self-Loathing Gets Projected Onto Others
- There's A Weird Double Standard When It Comes To Women
- There's Power In (Sad) Numbers
- Social Media Amplifies Things To Insane Levels
- The Incel Mindset Winds Up Pushing Your General Politics To The Right
- Changing Can Feel Like Turning Your Back On A Cult
Edited by M84 on Apr 9th 2019 at 1:52:08 AM
Disgusted, but not surprised
When feminists said that women were forced to conform to a harsh standard of beauty, Hollywood, I'm pretty you were supposed to stop doing that, not take it as an excuse to force similar standards on men.
You had one job, dammit!
Shin Megami Tensei IV
To be fair, that's still being egalitarian.
Also, I have lurked into...places, very...curious places.
When we discuss sexism from minorities, we usually see them by their long term history. But I'm seeing how some minorities can take somewhat understandable ideas (IMO) and turn it into depressing blends of misogyny, racism and apologia for dictators.
It belongs here? Is all about a Double Standard that it always fascinated me (in the "watching a house burn" sense). Is definitely male related.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Apr 13th 2019 at 3:47:18 AM
Watch me destroying my country
I never actually thought finding women of any given race more attractive was in and of itself a bad, but I failed to consider the possible subconscious cultural biases at work, too. Thoughts?
Sexism exists at any given group, because it is a constant of human society, depressing as that is to admit. All should be equally criticized, one just has to be careful that the speech doesn't go from "I hate the sexism inside group X" to "I hate group X".
Edited by HailMuffins on Apr 13th 2019 at 6:06:16 AM
Those kind of preferences are almost always gonna be the result of instilled cultural values to one extent or another rather than it being unadulterated personal taste.
And like it's not as if you can force yourself to have different ideas of attractiveness or whatever but you can at least be conscientious and examine where those ideas might have come from, and not be a creep about it.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
@Muffins
Your comment at the end reminds me to the news of a guy that went into a Chinese restaurant and letally wounded a employee and the owner because he "wanted to save Asian Woman from traditional asian opression".
Yikes...
Good that you shared the link (thought it really is from 2018? Is newer than I thought) because it was about that too (not the same but strongly related)
And yeah, Asian Woman are seen as more femenine than other races, which obviously makes them attractive to males. The flip side is that Asian Males are put into a...extremely uncomfortable situation.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Apr 13th 2019 at 4:49:03 AM
Watch me destroying my country
I enjoyed that cracked article, and it's nice to see a former incel has managed to pull themselves out of that trap. The movement is quite scary in how it reinforces such toxic beliefs and pushes people to worsen themselves - the crab bucket is a perfect analogy.
Oh, bother.
East Asian people are almost treated like the real life version of Elves.
Edited by M84 on Apr 24th 2019 at 8:03:20 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
This doesn't really contradict, or even address, my point.
I know all about people stealing to survive, but you can also do it without putting others at risk.
You must not have read my post, I did not say that what she did was acceptable.
"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn