Sexism and Men's Issues

After a few attacks by them, I think that may be the entire point. "Kill the normies" and all that.

Edited by TerminusEst on Sep 9th 2018 at 10:31:05 AM

Incels, like many MRA groups, don't actually want their "problems" solved. That takes effort. They just want to commiserate on how mean and unfair the world is to them.

Speaking of incels, a woman I know shared an incel meme on Facebook, though I'm quite sure she didn't know the origin of it.^note a meme saying "seven billion people in the world and not one of them will take one for the team and date me."

I'm sure that said meme had become a overall joke about being single rather than just Incel stuff. I've see people that isn't related to incels sharing it a lot.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Sep 11th 2018 at 9:39:28 AM

I've seen that joke way before Incels were a thing tho.

On the veins of the Sure there are plenty of fish in the ocean, but I am in the middle of a desert'.

The attitude existed long before incels had a name, yes.

Incels did not sprout into existence the moment the group was named. They've been around for a long time. They've just never been organized before.

Yeah, it's "incel" in the sense of "I am single and I'd rather not be", so "involuntarily celibate" by the letter of the definitions of those words, but I wouldn't call it incel specifically. It's kind of self-deprecating, but not toxic or hateful.

Edited by RedSavant on Sep 11th 2018 at 12:58:16 PM

Do the guys who make that joke realize the implications of saying that a woman dating him is a sacrifice on her part?

Seriously, if a guy thinks he is shit with nothing to offer, why would he expect any woman to date him?

I suspect some people do know it's a self-deprecating joke, of the "Why won't a woman take one for the team and date me? Then again, I wouldn't date me either if I was a woman" variety. At least, I hope some people know it's meant to be self-deprecating.

It's a case study in the fact that a joke is a sincere sentiment presented in a goofy fashion.

The joke is, "LOL I'm entitled to women despite my total lack of likable qualities."

You get your Incel Membership Card when you stop typing "LOL".

There is the difference between the Incel as a group and concept and the I am single but I don't want to be situation.

Incels outright blame women and society for their chastity and act as they are ought to get laidas if it was a right that is being actively denied to them.

While the latter is more of a situation where the person, any person, for whatever reason is looking for a relationship or even casual sex but is somehow unable to get it.

It is the screaming difference between I want have a date but I suck as this whole dating thing and I want a date and it is everyone else's fault I am not getting any.

Incels either believe that for some arbitrary reason they are inherently undatable because they aren't tall, thin, strong, ect; enough and blame women and society for having unfair standards while simultaneously refusing to to admit that they have personality issues that scare any potential date away.

Seriously, even Eliot Roger was called a Fakecel because he wasn't that unattractive and looked like a fairly normal or average looking man.

I've returned from hell...

...My Berserk Button had being found. Alt Righters saying "but what about abused males?" when trashing feminism.

Really. Is something that enrages me because is something that feminism absolutely care (gender equality includes equal punishment) yet a lot of people believe that no, feminists are perfectly fine with abused males.

Like. All those guys are the same guys that would say "just man-up", but now that they have to find a way to justify being a dick. They now try to look like if they care.

And people believe them.

Ugh.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Sep 13th 2018 at 6:47:03 AM

They're hypocrites.

Because they would totally abuse women if they could (and do) but would object if they fought back.

Moral Myopia at its most extreme.

The Alt-Reich using but what about men? is less about fixing issues related to men and more as a silencing tool against Feminists.

It is sheer whataboutism, they are more than glad to perpetuate toxic masculinity and enforce toxic gender roles as long as it benefits them.

Yep.

So-called "Mens' Rights Activists" also love their whataboutism. It's a real hassle trying to figure out whether an MRA group actually gives a shit about the actual problems men face or whether they're just trying to shut down feminists.

There was one so-called MRA I used to follow a long time ago who I used to think actually had some good ideas. Then she ended up supporting a certain something that made me realize "nope she's full of shit".

And yes, I'm using the right pronoun. Female MR As are a thing.

Edited by M84 on Sep 13th 2018 at 11:59:07 PM

I have said it before as I did delve into the alt-reich circles a few years back for that very reason, as I am man that happens to be a abuse survivor in a multitude of ways.

The alt-reich does not give a fucking shit about abused men. All they are doing is using it as an shutdown tactic because they can't form actual logical arguments which is hilariously ironic considering how many of them act like they are the logical ones.

Do they support the men that are abused? No. Do they have shelters for abused men? No, they are too fucking lazy to even try building or making one.

They don't give a shit about abused men under their wings as they just use them as shields.

It fucking disgusts me really.

It has always been about shouting over what people are saying. They care about abused men only as much as they can serve as a dismissal of the societal and systematic problems being talked about. Or worse yet, they make up some loony crap to make it seem as if it is the fault of everyone else, usually for the most boorish of causes such as "it is the femnazi's fault we can't get laid". Friendo, why is that the thing you care about?

[insert banal argument relating to (even tangentially) the "it's nature" rebuttal here]

This is how the entire reactionary right-wing operates; they want to act like they're driven by logic and reasoning rather than pure emotion, but their entire ideology is emotionally-driven, so what do they do? They disguise their feelings as "facts". They maintain their facade of "reals over feels" by coating their emotion-based beliefs with pseudo-scientific terms and big words.

Of course, if you challenge them long enough, they claim that you're the one putting feels over reals while simultaneously whining about how they're being picked on/ganged up on/dogpiled/etc. by a biased left-wing echo chamber and how liberals are so mean to them and Rage Quit the discussion.

It's similar to how trolls work. From Jean Paul-Sartre:

What's worse, I've seen this tactic popping up on this forum from time to time. And the people using them never seems to get banned. The threads just get locked.

Edited by HottoKenai on Sep 15th 2018 at 9:04:39 PM

There's a reason I'm cynical about "Facts before Feelings" declarations. 9 times out of 10, they don't even care about facts and just want an excuse to be an *BEEEEEEEEEEP*.

Facts and feelings don't have to be at odds with each other. You are allowed to have feelings about the facts.

FACT: 12,800 unaccompanied children are being held in custody in detention centers at the border. This is an all-time record for most children imprisoned without their parents in our country.

FEELING: That is indefensibly terrible and Donald Trump needs to be impeached immediately.

True, but your feelings should be influenced by the facts, not the other way around.

Too many people let their gut feelings dictate how they view the world, which is why we still have thousands of people who insist that vaccines are poison or climate change isn't real or the earth is flat in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Honestly I think that last one has more to do with a twisted form of I Just Want to Be Special than gut feelings alone.

It's part of the appeal of conspiracy theories. You get to think of yourself as special while everyone else is "sheeple".