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BigK1337 Comedic Super Troper from Detroit Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Comedic Super Troper
Nov 8th 2018 at 5:30:51 PM

Yeah, and from all the recent retcons in Hulk lore they made it clear that there were collateral damage cause by the Hulk. Hell, the main citation to why Hulk is deemed a dangerous threat to humanity was when he was permanently seperated from Banner and became Mindless Hulk. Y’know the Hulk from the 80s that basically is gone of all the conscious action of Banner and is now a mindless beast of rage who WILL destroy everything and kill just about anyone around him. That Hulk, before Peter David merge him back with Banner to give us the return of Grey Hulk in his awesome defining Hulk run.

And just to keep the running gag going, Ultimate Marvel is poopey. The only good that came from it was Ultimate Spider-Man and the first three volumes of Ultimate Fantastic Four.

"Who needs sanity when you have unlimited power!" Now in (Very Active) Tumblr Form
Nov 8th 2018 at 5:36:57 PM

That's the problem. If Hulk is just a harmless Gentle Giant and all that is needed is to leave him alone, then why doesn't everybody Just Eat Gilligan? All the conflict is pointless is there is such an easy way out.

But what if Hulk is an actual and real threat? Old Man Logan did try to play things legit and "Leave Hulk alone", and I hope you know how did that turned out for him. There's also his recent arc against the Maestro: "leave Hulk alone" means leaving an entire village of people to be his slaves. In those stories, the stakes are high, because there is not an easy way out.

Ultimate Marvel: the best comics of all time
slimcoder Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armage
Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armage
Nov 8th 2018 at 5:50:28 PM

Because Ross is an unstable prick & the citizens of the Marvel Universe are a bunch of fear-mongering assholes. They will never leave him alone because they will never stop being afraid of him.

Those futures are not indicative of who the Hulk actually is especially Old Man Logan's Hulk who became an evil bastard because of an extra blast of gamma radiation.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 8th 2018 at 5:51:30 AM

Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Nov 8th 2018 at 5:56:49 PM

Somehow weirdly MCU SHIELD was the only one that figured it out

They watched Banner from a far distance and just let him live his life

Ultimate SHIELD lost track of him after failing to nuke him to death point blank and 616 SHIELD couldn’t strategic homeland intelligence their way out of a wet paper bag most of the time

The only other people that have come close to doing it right were the Defenders who gave Hulk all the beans he could eat

My original fictions and Essential Avengers liveblog
Nov 8th 2018 at 6:02:07 PM

In other words, "because then there's no show". Just Eat Gilligan in it's prime.

By the way, Ultimate Marvel may have ended, but it's legacy lives on. Mark Millar took the character, turned off those annoying excuses, and made a character that is an actual danger, that Ross and their kind are justified in trying (and failing) to kill. And the current comic took things even further than that, and turned Hulk into a full horror character. Millar must be proud.

Ultimate Marvel: the best comics of all time
Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Nov 8th 2018 at 6:03:22 PM

Hulk has been a horror character before. Peter David did work in that direction

My original fictions and Essential Avengers liveblog
BigK1337 Comedic Super Troper from Detroit Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Comedic Super Troper
Nov 8th 2018 at 6:10:28 PM

[up]x2 Funny thing about that is that in his initial apparence in Silver Age comics he was very much a threat to begin with rather than a gentle giant. I mean Banner and Rick have to invent a mechanical door strong enough to hold the Hulk in for the night so that he doesn’t go around attacking the public (which during that time he is all too keen to do).

And going back to my point with the Mindless Hulk thing, what makes him truly a danger to the Marvel Universe is his constantly shifting personality shifts. I mean seriously, one minute he is a misanthrophic creature who wants smash humanity, then the next he is some golem who follows the commands of some teenager, then the next he is pretty much just Banner but with a sarcastic edge, and then back to the base misanthrope wanting to smash persona (all this in the span of Five Fucking Issues of his original run). You would think that once he settle on angry misunderstood gentle giant it would settle on that, but noooooo Mindless Hulk happens which would lead to Peter David’s run and the wonderfully complicated nature of Bruce Banner’s psyche which will forever.

So basically one minute Hulk will be easy to work with due to the heroes either knowing what NOT to piss him off and the next he gets a different personality which is has his own set of buttons to NOT push that the heroes accidently did because he is not the same Hulk, ONLY for him to become a different Hulk who doesn’t have the same issues as the other Hulks but because the heroes though he might be unstable like the other Hulks they fight him but gradually learns that that Hulk is cool and basically accept him . . . only for him to revert back to his base persona and he rampage the city because he retained what triggers him from that time.

Holy fucking shit this super hero is Tumblr personify . . . okay technically Faith is Tumblr personify, but thats ONLY for the good parts of that website. Hulk, however, is all the batshit side of things.

So basically due to his unpredictable psyche and constantly shifting personality Hulk is a huge threat for that.

[up] Pretty much. Hell his inspiration was pretty much to be Frankensteing for the Atomic Age.

Edited by BigK1337 on Nov 8th 2018 at 9:12:10 AM

"Who needs sanity when you have unlimited power!" Now in (Very Active) Tumblr Form
slimcoder Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armage
Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armage
Nov 8th 2018 at 6:16:34 PM

[up][up][up] Uhhhh Hulk was already all those things loooooong before Ultimate turned him into a cannibal rapist.

Millar didn't invent fucking jack.

Nov 8th 2018 at 6:35:46 PM

Actually, he wasn't. He was a gentle giant that never killed anyone. All his reputation was just an empty informed attribute. Millar did what needed to be done to make him live up to his reputation and make it justified. Because Hulk is meant to shock the reader, take him out of the comfort zone. Lee and Kirby's version may have been enough in the 1960s, but nowadays he was not shocking anyone. Millar's changes were a way to go in that direction. Not the only possible one, just one that worked. Your reactions prove it.

Ultimate Marvel: the best comics of all time
RodimusMinor Not actually a minor
Not actually a minor
Nov 8th 2018 at 6:36:37 PM

I may be a huge Bendis stan but even I think Millar's Ultimate work was lame.

"Do you think this letter on my head stands for France" should go down in history as an embarrassment to the whole medium of comics.

slimcoder Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armage
Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armage
Nov 8th 2018 at 6:41:45 PM

[up][up] I wouldn’t call our reactions shocked.

I think it’s more eye-rolling or face-palming.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
Nov 8th 2018 at 7:02:24 PM

You'll notice that even though Ewing has taken Hulk to a darker place, he does not apparently feel the need to have him be a cannibal rapist. In fact, this issue was the first time that he actually killed someone.

So no, Millar didn't "do what needed to be done" - he just decided to go the most grimdark route he could think of. You can make the Hulk scary without that shit, and honestly, it's not that scary, it's just gross and insulting.

Oh God! Natural light!
BigK1337 Comedic Super Troper from Detroit Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Comedic Super Troper
Nov 8th 2018 at 7:13:24 PM

[up]x2 My reaction went something like this

Middle School/High School: WOW THIS HULK IS SO MUCH MORE BADASS! ULTIMATE MARVEL IS THE TRUE WAY TO ENJOY MARVEL COMICS!

Second Half of High School: Huh upon re reading this, I just realized they made Hulk into a cannibal and potential rapist. I mean the fact he is a rampaging monster that destroy cities is scary enough, do they really need to add that?

College: Okay after much thinking Ultimate Hulk is pretty much the exact charicture of the Hulk that 616 Ross have always envisioned. Boy talk about completely missing the point of the character of the Hulk who is only a monster when treated as such by the humanity. Fuck this, I’m going back to watching Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes; that show had the BEST Hulk.

Adulthood: I want to go back in time and slap younger me for thinking Ultimate Marvel was great. He deserved it among many oth-

[Time portal opens with a version of me with thicker beard and an eye arriving to slap me in the face]

Me: What was that for?

Punished Me: That was for the elections of 2020.

Me: Wait did I do that coin flip again and now we have Trump again?

Punished Me: No we were actually serious that time. Hence why I look like Punished Snake.

Me: Sooo, we didn’t vote Trump for a second term?

Punished Me: All I could tell you is we fucked up!

Me: Can you tell me who is in office so I can assured it won’t happen?

Punished Me: I SAID all I could tell you is we FUCKED up!

Me: Okay okay. So why come back to the past?

Punished Me: Just to bitch slap myself for problems you haven’t caused yet. Plus we have to keep a stable time loop as this happened to me when I was in your shoe.

Me: . . . What

Punished Me: Timey Wimey Woobly Doobly Pbbbbbbt

[Punishe Me returns to the future]

Me: . . . Wow that was a pointless skit that has nothing to do with mocking how Ultimate Hulk’s portrayal was nothing more than just shock value than actually being a unique story telling take on the character. As usual I blame the X-Men.

[up] Well too be fair he showcased how horrifying the Hulk attacks are and how much it damage the lifes of people caught in the crossfire . . . oh wait they did that during the Mindless Hulk arc when the Hulk destroyed the city that revered him as a hero.

So what did Millar do again? Oh right he paralleled the Hulk’s rampage to 9/11 . . . ow the edge.

Edited by BigK1337 on Nov 8th 2018 at 10:20:37 AM

"Who needs sanity when you have unlimited power!" Now in (Very Active) Tumblr Form
HamburgerTime All things pure and good. from Garamsythe Sewer Relationship Status: I know
All things pure and good.
Nov 8th 2018 at 7:42:01 PM

The ending of Civil War, with Steve getting the tar kicked out of him by Real-Life Heroes©™®, ranks among the cringiest things I've ever seen in a comic. Careful swingin' that anvil there, Mark...

There's nothing that needs mending/Just follow my words, they will lead you to the ending.
Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Nov 8th 2018 at 8:57:56 PM

What the Ultimate universe portrayal of Hulk did right was treating a Hulk rampage as analogous to a natural disaster in damage and scope and lasting impact. It wasn't unheard of in the 616 Marvel but things were more likely to be swept under the rug or hurriedly rebuilt there. The early Hulk attacks in the Ultimate Marvel timeline where big events, mark a calendar and remember them every year. The later Hulk stuff, less so.

The instance when the Hulk with two infinity gauntlets couldn't just instantly stomp the Ultimates springs to mind in terms of his threat decay.

The cannibalism and rapiness was just Actual 13 Year Old edginess. And not even anything new as it had been done by Hyde in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Only a few years prior too so not even something obscure.

I just recalled that Hyde also ends up eating an alien. A loooooooot of circular inspiration going on there.

Edited by Bocaj on Nov 8th 2018 at 12:18:14 PM

My original fictions and Essential Avengers liveblog
Dr.XXX The Mad Doctor
The Mad Doctor
Nov 9th 2018 at 7:12:04 AM

So recent previews of FF #3 has revealed that over half a decade has passed since Secret Wars for the Future Foundation. Assuming the minimum of 5 years has passed since Franklin (8) and Valeria (3) were last in the Marvel Universe, they stand at 13 and 8 respectively.

You could have said anywhere between 13-18 to the both of them and I'd believe it. This is also why I believe that artists can't draw children unless you're Gurihiru. Seriously, Franklin had a whole shirtless scene last issue and looked away too buff to be, well, 13 while Valeria looks at least 13-14 for an 8 year old. Assuming 6 years has passed, Franklin would be 14 and 9. The anatomy for Franklin is fine then, seeing how 14-15 is where puberty is very nice or very sadistic to boys, but Val would look nothing like she does at the age of 9.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
Nov 9th 2018 at 7:45:08 AM

Wait, Valeria's supposed to be THREE??

My various fanfics.
Nov 9th 2018 at 8:29:07 AM

The only decent Ultimate Marvel comic was Spidey, that's it. No more cannibal rapist Hulk is a good thing in my book.

Well the current Hulk isn't a rapist at least.

Though if ya make the Hulk actually dangerous then it completly justifies Ross' single-minded hunt of the guy.

Ross, for whatever flaws he has as a person was always justified in hating the Hulk. Marvel has just started getting wise to this in recent years.

And Marvel always did pride itself on being the more realistic of the Big 2 anyway. A Hulk without a body count isn't very realistic.

Aleistar Moon Child from the collective unconscious Relationship Status: A teenager in love
Moon Child
Nov 9th 2018 at 10:20:48 AM

[up] Ummmm... it isn't "realistic' for the Hulk to even EXIST in the first place. I feel like that much should be acknowledged: the entire scenario is a fantasy constructed to explore a lot of things, but in this context it would be how societal structures target certain individuals/groups for "crimes they might commit."

The work of writing had always been, for me, the work of enduring failure. - Ta-Nehisi Coates
Nov 9th 2018 at 10:34:19 AM

[up]There's a thing called Willing Suspension of Disbelief. We can accept, for the sake of enjoying a work of fiction, that a creature like Hulk may exist within the narrative context of the work we are reading. Which is a world Like Reality Unless Noted. But then, we would expect the consequences of the existence of such a creature to be realistic. It's one thing to use Hulk as a metaphor for the real-world weapons of mass destruction (and I'm not talking about the Ultimates, Hulk was created by Lee and Kirby as a response to the atomic fear of the time), and it's another to go into full Space Whale Aesop territory.

Ultimate Marvel: the best comics of all time
RodimusMinor Not actually a minor
Not actually a minor
Nov 9th 2018 at 11:35:13 AM

I'm not really sure what we're arguing anymore but the consequences of the Hulk's existence are those wrought by people who hunt him down, and you're basically applying the same logic the MU citizens use to justify their fear of Mutants.

Dr.XXX The Mad Doctor
The Mad Doctor
Nov 9th 2018 at 1:28:14 PM

Wait, Valeria's supposed to be THREE??

She says something along the lines of "You know I'm three, right?" When Bentley 23 says he thinks he's in love in FF

Nov 9th 2018 at 2:25:41 PM

On another, completely different note, has anybody heard Marvel say anything about this Quad Publishing deal? note 

Im a bit concerned as I've been really enjoying their Epic line, and would hate to see people loose faith in it because of a shabby printing house: supposedly the pre-order numbers for the line have gone down significantly in the last few months because nobody is trusting to buy it sight unseen now, and since Marvel don't advertise the printing house in the solicits people can't just avoid the books being made by Quad.

Nov 9th 2018 at 3:48:24 PM

Does She-Hulk currently have an ongoing?


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